Asus ROG GL702ZC owners lounge

Discussion in 'ASUS Reviews and Owners' Lounges' started by Deks, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Further to that response, 28 days seemed far too long, and after calling citizens advice, I was told the trader is expected by law to issue a refund no more than 14 days after receiving the unit.

    This is what I wrote to him:

    Good Afternoon Alfie

    The Consumer rights Act of 2015 dictates that a refund should be issued as soon as possible and no longer than 14 days from when you receive the item... so, I would be willing to organise the return of the unit if you issue a refund in that time frame (as you are obligated by law).
    Also, according to that same law, the refund must include the least expensive delivery option.
    You can check further details of this law on these two links:
    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange/
    Please check the section: How do I get a refund – and who pays for delivery?
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...nging-your-mind-about-something-youve-bought/
    "The seller has to pay you the refund within 14 days from when they receive the item."

    Other than that, how do you suggest I organise the return of the laptop to you?
    Do you need to me to reset Windows prior to sending the unit back?
    I will require full details (including the address) for this to be done properly (though I suspect it would need to be done with Royal Mail recorded delivery and sent to the same address I sent the official letter), and I will of course let you know when the unit has been sent and provide tracking number as well

    Kind regards


    I am getting a distinct impression that LaptopsDirect head of customer service (or their entire company in general) is either unfamiliar of consumer law, or doesn't care about it in the first place, as this is yet another response which indicates they want to prolong the refund for whatever reason.
     
  2. meteeusz

    meteeusz Notebook Consultant

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    I noticed strange fan behaviour on linux (debian/ubuntu). I'm almost 100% sure that your problem is related more to B350 or VRM overheating then CPU/GPU.
    You sholud use NoteBook FanControl and make your own separate CPU and GPU fan curve.
    Fans on ubuntu are off very often, keyboard around "L" key and casing above F5-F12 is very hot.
    I didn't touch anything on ubuntu yet cause I don't use it very often right now.

    https://github.com/hirschmann/nbfc

    I changed fan curve on windows and my idle temperatures are 38C with:
    P2 state: 1.55GHz@0.8V (this is lowest idle clock oryginaly it was probably @0.9V)
    P1 state: 3.2GHz@1.050V (this is base clock rised from 3.0GHz@1.050V)
    P0 state: 3.6GHz@1.225V (this is all core boost rised from 3.2GHz@1.188V)

    I noticed idle power consumption reduction after P state change to around 40W at idle and increase in power consumption at very high CPU load. CPU temp difference is around +2C at 50% CPU utilisation.

    Temperatures while gaming with AMD Chill ON are:
    GPU: 60-65C
    CPU: 65-70C

    I think that I can do much more in optimization but I have to wait till warranty end.
    First one will be liquid metal ;) and second VBIOS mod.

    Oh by the way Deks, I checked Acer Helios 500 price where I live... it doubles the GL702ZC price :/. Where did you see it for not much more than GL702ZC?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  3. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Saw the Acer Helios 500 (with all AMD hardware) on Currys/PcWorld:
    https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/compu...-laptop-1-tb-hdd-256-gb-ssd-10183595-pdt.html

    Its out of stock at the moment.
     
  4. sniffin

    sniffin Notebook Evangelist

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    So I now have Wattman working with this laptop. For reference, I have the Adrenalin 19.1.1 drivers installed, and they were express installed over the stock drivers that came with the laptop.

    How to:
    1. Install MSI Afterburner
    2. Check the "extend official overclocking limits" under AMD compatibility
    3. Your laptop will restart
    4. Open Radeon Settings, and Wattman is there

    You don't need to use MSI Afterburner after doing this, however I recommend keeping it installed for when future driver updates occur. I have disabled auto-start so that it doesn't mess with Wattman, and am just leaving it installed.

    Caveats:

    Only memory clock and voltage work in GLOBAL Wattman. If you make specific profiles for games, everything works: All Core clock/voltage p-states, Memory clock/voltages p-states, and Temperature Target and Temperature Max and Power Limit. What doesn't work is fan speed configuration.

    I'd highly recommend this as it is far more flexible than MSI Afterburner, and eliminates the need for a 3rd party tool entirely (but again, keep it installed for future driver use).
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. sniffin

    sniffin Notebook Evangelist

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    So after a few hours playing around with Wattman, I thought I'd share what I've discovered and some theories.

    In my opinion, the RX 580 core voltage on this laptop is not readable, or writable by monitoring programs. I believe that what GPU-Z and MSI Afterburner report is the GDDR5 voltage. Why do I think this?

    1. Whatever is set as the memory voltage in Wattman is what shows up in GPU-Z and MSI Afterburner.
    2. Watttool and Polaris VBIOS editor show that for this RX 580, the memory idle voltage is 0.8v and at full load is 1.0v. Exactly what is reported by these programs at stock.

    So what of the core voltage? Wattman reports exactly what is in the VBIOS - which was originally shown by Deks on page 1 of this thread: http://forum.notebookreview.com/attachments/watttool-screen-jpg.150688/

    Wattman will not apply changes to these values, but I actually think this is OK. 850mV for 1077MHz is actually quite low, and in fact is excellent when you consider some of the voltage/frequency curves for Polaris that are floating around on google. Memory clock/voltage, Power Limit, and Temp target/max still work in Wattman.

    In my view, the best way to control thermals in this laptop is to undervolt the Ryzen 1700, and for the RX 580 - make use of the temperature max function, undervolting (and possibly underclocking) the memory, and using other tools AMD offers such as Radeon Chill and FPS limiters. Doing this, I have managed to keep both the CPU and GPU in this laptop at about 66-67c in Borderlands, as a test case example.
     
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  6. meteeusz

    meteeusz Notebook Consultant

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    Undervolting R7 1700 is pointless. This CPU is already well balanced. Google it - it is a lot better to gain some MHz with the same power.
    You can change fan curve if you want lower temps. I think that it will be good idea to change thermal paste to liquid metal on CPU and GPU. It can lower temps by >10C. I tested this on 4 other laptops lately and it is really good solution to solve problem with high temps and/or high fan speed.

    I'm wondering about what you said about RX580...
    If you are right than why with power limit on +0% and just reduced "core" voltage card can handle constant 1077MHz with heavy gpu load. Which is not true with stock voltage...
    Actually it will be good to use of furmark here... RX580 can't handle powerdraw and it has reduced clock on this test.
    If on stock settings gpu clock will be lower then on "undervolted" then it deffinatelly changing core voltage.
    If on both cases core frequency, power draw and FPS will be the same - it means that you have right.
    I'll check it later.

    You said before that you can change everything on WattMan, can you really change gpu core clock?
     
  7. sniffin

    sniffin Notebook Evangelist

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    Furmark isn't a good test I don't think - the drivers throttle the GPU so in the end it doesn't actually end up drawing close to 68W.

    I think more testing is needed to say definitively. I think it's odd that monitoring programs would misread voltages this way, but if I'm right it's probably a product of how ASUS put the laptop together. As for Wattman and core clock - you can change it but I realised after testing it won't apply it. It seems core clock and voltages are really quite hard-wired and unable to be changed. Everything else seems to work well though, aside from fan control.
     
  8. meteeusz

    meteeusz Notebook Consultant

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    FurMark is good enough if you know how to use it.
    Check these screenshots:

    Stock settings:
    upload_2019-1-16_16-56-8.png

    Undervolt:

    upload_2019-1-16_16-57-18.png

    Undervolt +10% power limit:

    upload_2019-1-16_16-58-18.png

    So... core voltage regulation is deffinatelly working!
    Power limit too.
    I also checked memory clock and it is also working fine.

    P.S.
    Tip of the day:
    If you wanna use furmark to test gpu on its power limit then just turn off antialiasing and run it in lower resolution.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  9. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Nice.
    See, I never got those numbers in Furmark even before the RMA I noticed that in Furmark, the GPU clocks were also fluctuating though the issue wasn't as pronounced as today.
    My unit must have been a REALLY bad batch. Although I don't understand how could Asus repair service miss this.
    I asked them to thoroughly check the CPU and GPU during both RMA's at full capacity to make sure the components are running fine... and yet, they didn't

    Its a good thing I'm finally returning mine back as a defunct unit for a full refund.

    A bit of an update on my progress.
    I am nearly done resetting the laptop (I initiated a full blown wipe of empty space which naturally takes a long time - about 4 hours or more).
    So I will be sending the laptop back to LaptopsDirect tomorrow morning or early afternoon signed for in original packaging no less.

    At least things will be easier when I get my refund and then I'll probably wait until either Acer Helios 500 with all AMD hardware is available, or just wait for Zen 2 laptops.
    Alternatively, if I won't be able to wait, I was contemplating on getting an Acer Nitro 5 with 2500u and RX 560x as a temporary replacement until Zen 2 hits the market... or an NV/Intel laptop (possibly MSI make or a custom build from PCSPECIALIST which has RTX 2060 for roughly £1400.

    I'd rather avoid those Intel/NV laptops as their CPU's are even weaker than Ryzen 1700 (nevermind 2700 in Helios 500)/


    EDIT:
    Here's an Acer Nitro 5 which apparently has expandable RAM up to 32GB and its quite cheap.
    https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/compu...560x-gaming-laptop-1-tb-hdd-10180725-pdt.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
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  10. meteeusz

    meteeusz Notebook Consultant

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    Isn't Acer nitro 5 with 2500u single channel only?
    I have HP Envy 15 x360 with 2500U (cTDP 25W) and it is really OK. It has dual channel RAM at least.
    It is a lot better in terms of material used to build and overall production quality than GL702ZC I wouldn't even never compare quality of these two.
    I think that acer helios 500 (AMD) will be same quality as GL702ZC.

    If you can - just wait till zen2 wil be available (probably with radeon VII)
    R7 1700 vs R7 2700 - 2700 is only couple % better and... it is already 1yo CPU with big chance to price drop in mid 2019 (because zen2 launch)
    Same with Vega56.
    Yes I know it is pretty decent card but... I don't know is it worth the price after radeon VII launch next month.

    Oh by the way, check Helios500 (AMD) B450(?) (or even B350?) radiator on photos :p.
     
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