Asus ROG GL702ZC owners lounge

Discussion in 'ASUS Reviews and Owners' Lounges' started by Deks, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Durval

    Durval Newbie

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    Wow, mhdvt, that was quite a hack :)

    Thanks for the writeup, I was not aware that this kind of thing (reading/reprogramming a flash chip in-circuit, without desoldering it first) was even possible, much less that there were reasonably inexpensive tools to do it. For an old electronics hand that grew up hearing that "you must desolder any component (at least N-1 of its "legs"), even a single resistor or capacitor, before doing any measurements on it, learning this is quite a shock :)

    Do you perchance still have this GL702ZC bios flash image file around? Can you please share it? I'd love to go through it myself using the AMIBCP utility to see what else I could find...

    Cheers,
    --
    Durval.
     
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  2. mhdvt

    mhdvt Notebook Enthusiast

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    You can download the bios from ASUS's website, rename the file to .rom extension and it'll open nicely in AMIBCP. When flashing we only use what we've dumped from the flash chip so it's as close to like-for-like when flashing back to the chip. And there are many chips out there you will have to solder the jumper cables to, luckily SOIC-8 type (like on here) are most common and there's a handy little clip for them available.
     
  3. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    IS there any way to unlock the BIOS for GL702ZC?
     
  4. mhdvt

    mhdvt Notebook Enthusiast

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    Unlock as in unlock extra options? Sure, but you'll still need a raspberry pi to flash it back though.
     
  5. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Here's a review of GL702ZC from Hexus:
    https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/laptop/112583-asus-rog-strix-gl702zc/

    This somewhat confirms my suspicions that Asus apparently cheeped out on the battery, SSD (though I have to say that the SSD is plenty fast for what it does), didn't include a dual channel RAM (or faster RAM for that matter) as options to modify the system prior to purchase (customisation), and of course the cooling solution (not to mention the fans) seems like an afterthought.

    I still like the laptop for what it is, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be ignoring how Asus made critical (and probably easily corrected) errors for what is essentially a 'poster child' of mobile computing for AMD using latest technologies.
    They could have and SHOULD have done better (for the same price).


    Why do reviewers still see the RX 580 as too power hungry?
    This mobile version is limited to 68W... its more efficient than the mobile GTX 1060 which is limited to 80W and performs pretty much the same in games.

    If Asus worked to limit the RX 580 to 80W as well in mobile space (and implemented proper cooling for it like they did for the GTX 1060, 1070 and 1080, not to mention 1080 SLI), it would likely be able to stretch itself further performance-wise (still, it's good to see that benchmarks are misleading and that actual gaming performance is well on-par even with lower clocks - but somehow no one is mentioning this).


    It seems very odd to me that Asus would intentionally ruin what could have been a perfectly GREAT laptop with these issues (main ones being the inferior/integrated battery, and of course really noisy fans).
    I wouldn't mind a bulkier laptop if it meant better cooling and superior battery (for the same price - no reason to overcharge on these things).

    Or, they could have done so intentionally to prevent the laptop from outselling their Intel+Nvidia counterparts - not sure if this can be substantiated at all, but it wouldn't surprise me.

    They still seem to be bending over to Nvidia and Intel as those laptops seem to have better overall cooling implementations (with higher TDP's to boot when you take into account the higher end GPU's like the 1070 and 1080) that are quieter.


    I'm sick of OEM's shafting AMD like this repeatedly (Ryzen at least changed things around and we have more AMD options at least), but options alone are not enough. Quality is important. AMD's components are not to blame here. They are efficient... it's the OEM's fault for high noise and less efficient cooling.

    They have no issues putting high TDP Intel and Nvidia components or cooling them with acceptable noise levels, but will completely ruin the AMD system in turn.


    It's actually a good thing I sent my laptop back to Asus for RMA, and I specifically asked them to have a look at what caused my fans to suddenly start running 100% all the time from boot-up and that they should look into redoing the cooling if needed to avoid it from happening again (since it looks like a hardware fault caused by gaming - or higher thermals).
    I also told them about higher than acceptable thermals and noise levels (which are headache inducing and make it impossible to work around people if I need to use professional software).
    They 'might' do something about that, but I doubt they would go redesigning a whole cooling assembly just because I mentioned these issues - who knows though - at the very least it could force them to admit they cheeped out on the cooling and might need to redo it.


    Would I still recommend the laptop for purchase?
    If you're keen on getting an all AMD portable workstation for content creation with decent graphics... yes.
    But bear in mind that the 'caveats' I mentioned are entirely OEM related... nothing really to do with AMD as such.
    In such an instance it would be good if another OEM did an all AMD laptop (properly) or Asus fixes up this one.

    Also, the existing cooling and noise levels could likely be improved through simple re-pasting of the GPU and CPU by using higher quality thermal compound (and possibly Fujipoly thermal pads where appropriate).
    It might be worth investigating the use of Liquid Metal Conductonaut given Asus cooling implementation (or at the very least GeLid GC Extreme which seems to perform pretty much like Liquid ultra and Liquid Pro).
     
  6. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Btw... Asus received my unit.
    They said:
    "We would like to inform you (my RMA number) has arrived in the repair centre for assessment.
    You will be kept updated on the progress of your repair.
    If you have any further concerns or queries please do not hesitate to email our support team on:
    Support_UK@asus.com"


    Considering I mentioned the issues of higher thermals and noise levels in the note I supplied, any recommendations to emphasise these problems again and make them consider redoing the cooling?

    I'm really disappointed that Asus would cheepout like this on cooling in what is otherwise an efficient hardware (it could be what damaged the fan control circuitry in the first place).

    I'm open to suggestions if you have some good ones to write back.
    Obviously, it might be too much to expect of Asus to improve the battery considering its integrated, etc... however, it might/should be doable for them to redo the cooling.

    Hmscott... I know you have some good suggestions.
    Would you consider raising these concerns again with them in an email to emphasise them?
     
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  7. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

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    @Deks, it sounds like you want to get rid of the laptop for good, but instead they're repairing it for you?

    You talk about hoping that Asus redoes the cooling for this laptop - do you mean you hope they repaste your RMA'd unit or that you hope they make improvements to the design of the cooling in this laptop model. Are you expecting them to redesign the cooling system & then send you back a redesigned laptop - sounds unlikely?

    It's a pity this laptop has been such a pain for you. As for the conspiracy type ideas behind Asus doing a rubbish job on cooling AMD parts in relation to NVidia - I sure hope that's not a thing, but with only an 85W TDP on the AMD GPU they should be able to tame it no worries, so strange they haven't done so. Although I don't think Asus would risk purposefully tarnishing their brand & reputation by spewing out sub-par AMD products, so I'm thinking conspiracy is not a thing.
     
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  8. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Oh, I never said I wanted to get rid of the laptop... I was merely expressing disdain for Asus shoddy cooling and really high fan noise (along with the pitiful battery and lack of dual-channel from the get go - I can let the SSD one slide though as its fast enough).
    It seems they went cheap-o with this laptop in relation to how they treat Intel+Nvidia ones in the same price range.

    Yeah, I know its unlikely that they would redesign the cooling.
    However, I have sent them my own GeLid Extreme paste and Fujipoly thermal pads which I requested to be used in an effort to improve existing cooling and to repair and of course examine what caused the fans to suddenly start spinning on 100% at all the times (no down cycling at all), and continued doing that outside Windows (and from boot-up) and to prevent such a problem from occurring again.

    Because, if the issue was caused by the heat emissions during gaming (it DID happen during gaming - which might have damaged the fan regulation hardware), it could be considered a design flaw (incorrectly placed hardware for example, or improperly shielded from waste heat, etc.).

    You have to admit that in such a scenario, I'd want Asus to examine the thing thoroughly and make sure it's not a design flaw, or if it is, that they fix it (otherwise I might have to request to get a refund) or recall all units until they can fix the problem (if it is a design flaw).
    I don't intend on using the laptop for 1 month only just to end up sending it back to Asus for repairs like this time.

    I'm sorry, but I won't end up paying large money to Asus and let them get away with shoddy/lazy engineering in the process for making a supposedly 'gaming' laptop that can't even live up to it's name in terms of cooling and performance.
    You don't design a 'gaming laptop' with cooling that cannot even sustain maxed out CPU and GPU without encountering thermal throttling (which admittedly only happens if you max out the CPU and GPU via synthetic benchmarks and professional software capable of using the CPU and GPU together... but even so, the cooling should be designed to handle it).
    That's an example of inadequate cooling and false advertising at best (which of course makes it a legal problem as well).


    I wasn't suggesting a conspiracy (although I could have worded it differently)... only that we have clear examples of how OEM's continuously produced laptops with insufficient cooling for relatively low power AMD hardware, but have no trouble with cooling much higher TDP Intel and Nvidia parts (and even sticking DESKTOP grade high-end hardware in laptops with sufficient cooling).

    Anandtech made a huge article on this a while ago and provided clear examples of how laptops with AMD APU's ended up with poor design choices, inadequate cooling, no SSD's, low quality screens, and of course no high frequency dual-channel RAM (on which the iGP was dependent on for better performance) - all of that priced at same levels as more expensive and higher performing Intel+Nvidia parts.
    Not a conspiracy, just dirty business practice on Intel's end in cohorts with OEM's

    To my knowledge, Asus was not taking part in making laptops with AMD APU's to date, so the GL702ZC might be their first real attempt at a full blown AMD laptop.

    I am being open minded to accept the possibility they might have made an honest error... but seriously, who pairs a 76Wh battery with a high powered laptop and makes it non-removable?
    It's a gaming machine yes, but you are likely to be using it for productivity on the go as well given the 8c/16th CPU.

    Here are the links to a shorter extremetech article and a long one on anandtech detailing the fiasco with APU's :
    https://www.extremetech.com/computi...igns-single-channel-ram-sabotage-amds-carrizo
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/10000/who-controls-user-experience-amd-carrizo-thoroughly-tested

    Also, the RX 580 in GL702ZC is limited to 68W (not 85W)... but even if it was 85W, Asus should have been able to easily provide proper cooling without ridiculous fan noise that induces headaches when spinning on maximum.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
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  9. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

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    If they can't fix up the cooling and fan issues to your liking, are you gonna try and get a refund, or you have probably owned the laptop too long to get a refund?
     
  10. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    I don't know.
    I would prefer to keep this laptop if possible, but obviously, I won't settle for a laptop that keeps breaking down all the time.
    The fan noise I can manage with earphones for example, and eventually re-paste (if Asus doesn't do the repaste using my thermal compount and thermal pads properly).

    I got the laptop from Laptopsdirect, and they have a policy that you can get a full refund if you decide to return the laptop within 14 days of purchase.
    Obviously, it's been a month and a half now, so I'm well past that point... however, since the problem has a technical fault that's basically Asus' problem (not to mention Windows issues), I should be eligible for a refund...

    I don't want to accept a unit with 4c/8th Intel CPU and an Nvidia GPU... that's not what I want.
    I wanted this laptop because it has 8c/16th CPU, all AMD hardware and FreeSync... so I'll probably give Asus two choices: they either fix the fan issue and improve the cooling, or I might have to request my money back directly from Asus.
     
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