Are there any notebooks that could rival macbook air in terms of size and weight?

Discussion in 'Apple and Mac OS X' started by MuffinMan123, Apr 18, 2010.

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  1. Xhibit

    Xhibit Notebook Evangelist

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    Hey buddy I have a 13inch macbook too, bought it last year, they used to be great computers. I'm talking about the current ones, the core 2 ones with "updated" 320m gpu, same screen as before, same pretty much everything. Its a rip off.

    My point was if you need a 13inch computer, its almost irresponsible to buy the current 13inch macbook. Apple keeping a core 2 in there because their cheap out integrated graphics weren't compatible is a slap in the face to their core fan base. The current 13inch specs are a joke and you'd have to be deceived, uneducated, or just just a fanboy to ever buy one.

    Wow lol, there are much better 13inch notebooks out there than the 13inch macbook. This is why the 13inch macbook pros have been neglected for so long, its because people will buy them no matter whats in them. Apples just seeing how much they can mark the 13inch up until they finally see a decline in the sales. In 2014 when the 13inch macbook is still running a core 2 (or something equivalent to a centrino today), are you still going to tell me it worth it because of OS X? I have to use OS X for certain software, and I do have a need for a 13inch computer, but I'm not going to let that force me to pay Apple out the for a cheap, outdated, and overpriced 13inch macbook. I'll probably end up buying a 15inch macbook(an actual good computer) but it makes me want nothing to do with them.

    Who knows, maybe if the 13inch macbook is a long time success they start up the same trend of rarely updating and using outdated hardware on the 15 and 17inch too. That would be great for OS X users.
     
  2. Underpantman

    Underpantman Notebook Virtuoso

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    ^^^
    Dude calm down. The i3/5/7 cpu's have been out for 3 months. That means the C2D is 3 months out of date!!!! Thats not that bad.... and there are a lot of other 'new' laptops still using crappier cpu's. The integrated gpu is about as good as you can get for an integrated.. and the 10h battery life is class leading.
    Ars has a good article for why apple couldn't put an i5 in the 13"... I suggest you read it. At the end of the day the 13" is still a v.good laptop... just not if you currently have a last years model. Does it kick the nuts off every pc laptop out there? No but then no apple product has.
    The apple/AMD talks are probably apple trying to twist Intel's arm into allowing them to use a different chipset with an i5... something that will need to happen for an iSeries to make it into the 13".
    Thus so you can probably bet that the next refresh (ie September/6months) the 13" will get an i3/5.
    a
    :)
     
  3. Khris

    Khris Yes I am better than you!

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    Maybe you should check this out so as not to make yourself look like even more of a tool.

    http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/20/why-the-13-macbook-pro-still-uses-core-2-duo-cpus/
     
  4. mishap

    mishap Notebook Consultant

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    As Sony demonstrated in the Z which is a solid 30% lighter than the MBP, a discrete GPU in a 13" form factor is not a real physical limitation. The issue instead is that Apple felt that sticking w/ C2D and an integrated NVidia chipset is a strong enough spec for them to stretch the existing design given the relative price/performance insensitivity that entry level MBP buyers have. That is a marketing/cost reduction decision vs. one made by engineering limitations. When C2D's dry up, Apple will have a Core i5/discrete GPU put into place and all these arguments will vanish.

    I don't fault them for maximizing their profit but for people to rationalize that Apple is doing them a favor by leaving in C2D is a bit ridiculous. I'd venture most people would be fine w/ an 7-8hr machine that had a 330M and Core i5 vs. a 10hr machine w/ a 320M and C2D especially at the $1,500 price point. When the Costco special $799 Acer Aspire Core i5-540M/5650M meets or beats the CPU/GPU/Storage/Memory specs of the $1,800 15" MBP, Apple is asking for a serious premium for screen/aluminum case/OSX/battery life differences. Sure the Acer's a throwaway but if it lasts 1.5 yrs, you can get an updated one at that time and widen the performance gap on the 1.5 yr old out of warranty MBP.

    The all day computing/battery life people are already well served in the sub 1k mark by Timelines and other thin/light machines. The 13" MBP kind of sits in a nether region since its 4.5lb weight is a bit chunky for an ultraportable and its graphics performance isn't amazing enough to be a primary creation/gaming machine especially when it hits $1,500 w/o a SSD drive.
     
  5. akin_t

    akin_t Notebook Evangelist

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    i7 has been out since 2008 (Bloomfield), i5 has been out since late 2009.

    Well I agree, but I think you should judge the computers by a little more than just the specifications.

    It has a 10 hour battery life ... It's not the strongest argument for the Macbook Pro 13 as some laptops can achieve the same claim. Those laptops however use ULC2D processors, and they're nowhere near as capable as the regular C2D.

    It's got OSX ... This is subjective for most, but some people cannot do without their OS of choice.

    It's got a durable aluminum chassis ... How many other laptops aren't made out of some plastic chassis susceptible to nicks, scratches and damage to the aesthetics of the machine in general.

    Lastly and most subjective of all ... It looks better than most laptops out there.

    You are right though, there is better value for money. But as the saying goes, one man's meat is another's poison. If the above mentioned features hold as much water to you as faster processing power ... Then the Macbook Pro is not a bad choice at all.

    Make no mistake, it is a solid computer even without the latest processor in there. I mean, it still does everything you require it to on a daily basis, does it not?

    That's a cop out. I'm sorry.

    It's the job of the engineers at Apple to find a solution to the problem they face ... If all engineers took that "Oh it's impossible!" approach to problems we would never move forward.

    Accept it, they didn't bother because they knew they would sell laptops regardless. Honestly, it's no big deal really ... i3 has no significant advantage over C2D besides TDP and # of threads, but to give excuses for Apple's engineers is just stretching it.
     
  6. Underpantman

    Underpantman Notebook Virtuoso

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  7. mishap

    mishap Notebook Consultant

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    Arrandale was released to the public on Jan 7 and Lenovo had a Core i powered T410 in the hands of NotebookReview Feb 5. No matter how good Lenovo's engineers are they didn't build the machine from scratch in under a month. If Apple didn't have a prototype chip by Q3 last year, they need to have a long talk w/ their Intel rep. I'm pretty sure Sony had the Z out in the wild by Feb as well. The supply chain wasn't fully ramped by then but the chip had to be finished by '09.

    As for the durability of aluminum, given all the talk of needing to buy protective cases, skins, and neoprene bags I'd say that MBP aluminum scratches and dents almost as easily as cheap plastic cracks. Somehow my work provided all plastic Thinkpad R51 still looks as fresh as the day it was made in 2004 despite absolutely ancient.
     
  8. ckx

    ckx Notebook Evangelist

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    And there is a good chance that Apple will still be selling C2D 13" MBP for $1200 when the year 2011 rolls around. Now think about that.
     
  9. doh123

    doh123 Without ME its just AWESO

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    People who buy Macs more often take more pride in their computers.. they want something flashy and well taken care of. There is no need to buy protective cases and skins and such, its just a desire to go an extra step. People do this same exact thing with non-Macs too.

    demonstrated? Have you ever worked in designing a laptop? (I actually have, yes) Have you looked at the Z build inside and outside, and the MBP 13" build? If you were more knowledgeable on the subject you'd know where the problems are. Things don't magically work just because you want them to. The whole casing would have to be MAJORLY redesigned to go with a i3/i5/i7 unless they wanted to stick to Intel HD graphics.
     
  10. mishap

    mishap Notebook Consultant

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    People are commenting on the impossibility of putting the i5/7 into a 13" and the Sony Z is physical proof that it is possible. It's not necessary for me to debate the intricacies of laptop design b/c Newegg can deliver you proof that an i7 and discrete GPU fit in a 13" form factor that isn't significantly larger than the 13" MBP while weighing 30% less.

    The Ars Technica photographed a 13" MBP board which showed they couldn't find a place on that particular board. I'm not saying that's false but it only says that it doesn't work if they leave the board/chipset alone. Apple faced the same design dilemma as every OEM that made a 13" computer in the C2D era and had to move to the i3/i5/i7 range. Either Apple's unibody design is extremely constraining their design capabilities or their product manager figured they could get another 6-9 months out of the existing C2D design b/c they've measured customer price sensitivity and figured they could go for it w/o damaging sales.

    I'm fairly certain that Apple is a large enough OEM to get access to Arrandale at least as early as Sony which speaks to Apple having plenty of time to look at a redesign. Given the i5/i7 is the future and C2D's will stop production sooner or later, either Apple has some lazy engineers or they took the rational price/performance/brand equity approach where they decided that people would still buy their 13" computers regardless of what chip they use.
     
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