AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Don't forget to run your 3990x on Windows Enterprise to get full 64c/128t usage, or if you can move to Linux. :)

    The 64 Core Threadripper 3990X CPU Review: In The Midst Of Chaos, AMD Seeks Opportunity

    by Dr. Ian Cutress & Gavin Bonshor on February 7, 2020 9:00 AM EST

    "The Windows and Multithreading Problem (A Must Read)
    Unfortunately, not everything is just as straightforward as installing Windows 10 and going off on a 128 thread adventure. Most home users that have Windows typically have versions of Windows 10 Home or Windows 10 Pro, which are both fairly ubiquitous even among workstation users. The problem that these operating systems have rears its ugly head when we go above 64 threads. Now to be clear, Microsoft never expected home (or even most workstations) systems to go above this amount, and to a certain extent they are correct.

    Whenever Windows experiences more than 64 threads in a system, it separates those threads into processor groups. The way this is done is very rudimentary: of the enumerated cores and threads, the first 64 go into the first group, the second 64 go into the next group, and so on. This is most easily observed by going into task manager and trying to set the affinity of a particular program:..."

    ...see the article for graphs and more...

    "We still have most of the performance on the chip (and we’ll see later in the benchmarks). However, some of the performance has been lost – if I wanted 64 threads, I’d save some money and get the 32-core! There seems to be no easy way around this.

    But then we remember that there are different versions of Windows 10.[!! and Linux too !!]
    From Wikipedia

    Microsoft at retail sells Windows 10 Home, Windows 10 Pro, Windows 10 Pro for Workstations, and we can also find keys for Windows 10 Enterprise for sale. Each of these, aside from the usual feature limitations based on the market, also have limitations on processor counts and sockets. In the diagram above, we can see where it says Windows 10 Home is limited to 64 cores (threads), whereas Pro/Education versions go up to 128, and then Workstation/Enterprise to 256. There’s also Windows Server.

    Now the thing is, Workstation and Enterprise are built with multiple processor groups in mind, whereas Pro is not. This has comes through scheduler adjustments, which aren’t immediately apparent without digging deeper into the finer elements of the design. We saw significant differences in performance.

    In order to see the differences, we did the following comparisons:
    • 3990X with 64 C / 128 T (SMT On), Win10 Pro vs Win10 Ent
    • Win 10 Pro with 3990X, SMT On vs SMT Off
    This isn’t just a case of the effect SMT has on overall performance – the way the scheduler and the OS works to make cores available and distribute work are big factors."
    ...see the article for graphs and more...

    "What’s The Verdict?
    From our multithreaded test data, there can only be two conclusions. One is to disable SMT, as it seems to get performance uplifts in most benchmarks, given that most benchmarks don’t understand what processor groups are.

    However, if you absolutely have to have SMT enabled, then don’t use normal Windows 10 Pro: use Pro for Workstations (or Enterprise) instead. At the end of the day, this is the catch in using hardware that's skirting the line of being enterprise-grade: it also skirts the line with triggering enterprise software licensing.

    Thankfully, workstation software that is outright licensed per core is still almost non-existent, unlike the server realm.

    Ultimately this puts us in a bit of a quandary for our CPU-to-CPU comparisons on the following pages. Normally we run our CPUs on W10 Pro with SMT enabled, but it’s clear from these benchmarks that in every multithreaded scenario, we won’t get the best result.

    We may have to look at how we test processors >16 cores in the future, and run them on Windows 10 Enterprise. Over the following pages, we’ll include W10 Pro and W10 Enterprise data for completeness.

    Hardware Unboxed below seems to have missed this - CB20 shows Windows 10 Pro - and I don't recall him saying anything about which Windows version he used.

    No one in the comments section said anything about HU using the wrong Windows either, so this is not a well known difference to those using Windows Home / Pro

    => Move to Windows Enterprise for better core / thread handling over 64 threads (32c/64t) - and I'd like to see testing for the 3950x / 3960x / 3970x as well on Windows Enterpise vs Home / Pro vs Linux.

    AMD Threadripper 3990X Review: Intel’s 18-cores, Crushed by AMD’s 64-cores
    Feb 7, 2020
    Hardware Unboxed

    Although for most of us this is way too much CPU, for a large portion of the working world workstation users, these 64c/128t CPU's can be of great value, and all of those happy 3990x users will report to their management how wonderful these ThreadRipper 3990x desktop versions of the Epyc Server CPU's have been, hopefully bringing more pressure on the server guys to add Epyc Servers to their mix.

    It was also fun to see that the 3990x matched or beat the 9900k stock in gaming within a few FPS on a 2080ti, probably able to do it with multiple renders and normal application load all at the same time. :)

    It's amazing that the stock power / thermals were so similar between the 3970x and 3990x, 2x the cores distributed over 2x the chips spread the heat out and made it easier to cool, landing at about the same power / temperature results:
    3990x stock power usage.png
    ThreadRipper 3990x running cool.png

    Another Microcenter sponsored build (like Level1Techs). It gets pretty wild as time runs out...

    You've NEVER Seen ANYTHING Like This Build Before...

    Feb 8, 2020
    Linus Tech Tips

    A good example of why it's always a good idea to build and power up POST test outside your case to test your parts before installing them into the case.

    While the parts are outside the case is also a good time to thoroughly read the build instructions for all of the components, including the case internal components - so that you can pre-think through the build order and required parts configurations for fitment.

    Getting to the end of a complex build only to find that all that tubing might have to be pulled to debug which component is causing the POST to fail...

    Linus does a great job of showing how not-to-do-it. The nice Microcenter Tech notices Linus flailing and comes to his rescue. Most of their interaction is likely off camera or cut in editing.

    And if you can, do your builds inside of a warehouse full of parts so that you can make build changes on the fly. :)
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    1smus delivers another great overclocking guide for Ryzen :)

    Update: New DRAM Calculator for Ryzen v1.7.0:

    AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3rd Gen Overclocking Deep Dive, feat. ASUS ROG Zenith II Extreme
    by 1usmus, on Feb 7th, 2020, in Processors. Manufacturer: AMD

    Amd Ryzen Master Released
    Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Alberto, Friday at 9:22 PM.

    Version :
    • [New] Support for latest Ryzen 3990X Threadripper CPU
    • [New] Updated dashboard for per-CCD compact minimization to simplify viewing and controlling of cores. Dashboard view remains persistent upon subsequent application launches
    • [New] Toggle for preferred core options to be based on current
    • Ryzen Master (OC) method or Windows (OS) method
    • [New] Persistent PCD toggle option for EDC/TDC/PPT to allow settings to remain after reboot
    • Cores speed shown from sleep to maximum frequency
    • Precision Boost Overdrive mode now available for mainstream processors
    • Auto Overclocking mode extends boost frequency while still under processor automation control
    • Deep display and control of memory module parameters for enthusiast tuning
    • Eco-Mode shifts processor to lower power operation for applicable Ryzen CPUs
    • Peak Core(s) Voltage (formerly CPU Voltage) captures the highest voltage requested for one or more cores at time of sampling
    • Average Core Voltage represents the sum average operating voltage of all cores across the sample period, including sleep time
    Download :

    Hardware Unboxed finally gets around to using that watercooled Asrock x570 Aqua motherboard in a 3950x build...

    My Ultimate Ryzen 9 3950X Build Complete, X570 Aqua + Corsair Hydro X
    Feb 3, 2020
    Hardware Unboxed

    Way back, about 37 pages, @Talon posted 4 release day 3950x reviews including Hardware Unboxed benchmarking results:
    3950x beats 9900ks and 9900k.png
    3950x beats 9900ks and 9900k CB20 mt.png
    HU attained a quick manual 4.3ghz all core OC on their 3950x, and Gamers Nexus 3950x OC'd all core @ 4.4ghz.
    CB20 3950x OC.png
    The power draw under load is amazing on the 3950x, a little less than the 3900x:
    3950x power consumption.png
    For some of the test results I'd like to see them redone using Windows 10 Enterprise results + Linux results where possible. Perhaps AMD's high core count CPU's will continue to motivate Microsoft to improve Windows Home / Pro to better handle thread and process management.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    PCWorld sums up each of the many reviews of the 3990x, but still misses the point that Windows itself is the limiting factor, even though they mention it several times they also list "shortcomings" of the 3990x, but all of them are based on Windows / Application shortcomings - they just aren't ready for that many cores.

    Threadripper 3990X review roundup: AMD's 64-core CPU can play Crysis, but it's not for everyone
    Its performance is in a class by itself, but it has some distinct limitations as well.
    By Gordon Mah Ung Executive Editor, PCWorld | FEB 10, 2020 3:00 AM PST

    So applications where you have control over the source code - much of it under control by users / implementers, Linux, and Enterprise Windows - where I would hope Microsoft expands / improves high core count performance. Microsoft is the only one that can make those optimizations unlike on Linux, where those kind of optimizations can be found and implemented by everyone, not just Linus.

    Linus Torvalds recently made a basic change to the kernel which reduced overhead in some workloads - those most likely found on high core count servers.

    Linus Torvalds Just Made A Big Optimization To Help Code Compilation Times On Big CPUs
    Written by Michael Larabel in Linux Kernel on 8 February 2020 at 06:38 PM EST. 48 Comments

    Rendering is fun :)

    the Worlds FASTEST Desktop CPU for 3D Rendering - Threadripper 3990X
    Feb 10, 2020
    CG Geek
    How fast is the 64-Core Threadripper 3990X at 3D Rendering in Blender!? T

    When the work load fits the hardware's capability, the 3990x gets some great scaling results:
    Render results #1.png
    Render Compare.jpg
    Complex Scene's benefit from the 3990x over the 2080ti:
    3990x vs 2080ti on complex scene.png
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  4. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Hardware Unboxed weighs in, and has previously answered this question as to their own experience installing and testing dozens of 5700xt / 5700 / etc GPU's as part of their extensive game and application performance testing - they don't see any problems in long term use or short term use, except if they forget to use DDU to clear out previous driver installs (Nvidia and AMD drivers). After doing some polls from their readers this go around, HU gives their summary:

    Can We Still Recommend Radeon GPUs? AMD Driver Issues Discussed
    Feb 13, 2020
    Hardware Unboxed
    Can We Still Recommend Radeon GPUs? AMD Driver Issues Discussed

    Abdullah Sari 2 hours ago (edited)
    "I'm using 19.XX.X drivers without any problems. However, the dreaded black screen comes to haunt me when I install a 20.XX.X driver."

    HerebyOrdinary 2 hours ago
    "It's kinda interesting how the whole driver issue is flipped on its head when you move over to Linux. The open source Mesa drivers for AMD tend to be really solid while the proprietary Nvidia drivers will sometimes cause serious problems..."

    sab188 2 hours ago
    "I kept having black screens when I'd game. For me, using the latest update, turning off GPU scaling in display and using standard graphics settings fixed everything for me... I have the Nitro+ though, running on its silent BIOS."

    For many it's been a long bug riddled time with Radeon drivers lately. It's very frustrating to watch given so many have no problems, or they are solved simply by using DDU (to remove previous Nvidia drivers) or by doing a clean Adrenaline install.

    Some have solved it with BIOS resets (motherboard BIOS, not vBIOS), clearing out RAM timing tweaking.

    But there are still some with seemingly incompatible configurations that give up, after many hours of trying.

    Frustration like this is typical for most of us at one time or another as part of our work day, it's really not acceptable to deal with it during our fun time.

    IDK what's going on but it's time for the AMD Radeon Group to take action to fix these problems before Big Navi comes out.

    AdoredTV's has a long list of his own to cover, but he does it in a funny way, complaining but at the same time giving solutions while making the complaining noises.

    @17:27, AdoredTV finds a reddit post that says turning off "enhanced sync" worked for him as AdoredTV agree's that work-around if you have a problem was recommended in previous notes.

    This one is great (17:51)), he reads the first part of the post, but ignores the 2nd half where the OP came back and Edited his post and says he installed 19.12.1 and has had no further problems (for the last 3 hours)... so perhaps he'll update again later?

    It's always annoying when there are driver problems, fortunately it's usually either or AMD / Nvidia, so I can do work around their bugs as needed.

    Nvidia has a long history of too many driver problems and lost performance, and it's still happening with Nvidia's latest driver 442.19 losing about 5% of performance in 3dmark tests compared to the previous version.

    Driver problems are not going to keep me away from Big Navi, and I doubt it will end up keeping AdoredTV away from Big Navi either. I think AdoredTV's trying to get AMD's attention so he can get free test units. :D

    Still Something Wrong At Radeon
    Feb 11, 2020
    Why I can no longer recommend Radeon.

    AdoredTV - Still something wrong at Radeon

    Jay gets down with the 5700 / 5700XT, with some useful tips...

    Every Radeon 5700 owner NEEDS to do this!
    Jan 31, 2020
    BIOS flashing to unlock performance is nothing new... in fact it was part of the 5600XT launch proving that brands do artificially limit performance to make sure they don't get too close to more expensive video cards... So today I show you just how much FREE performance you can gain!

    We performed the 5700XT Washer + Paste mod... did it help?
    Feb 10, 2020

    And, don't forget these previously posted tips and fixes for RX 5700 / RX 5700XT:

    PayOnce4EntireGame 2 points·1 day ago
    "I used DDU and reinstalled the older drivers... 19.10.1. Back when the interface was dope and performance on my 580 was better. :)

    Why AMD, why ruin that sweet, simple interface? :'(

    qufhuzedo 15 hours ago
    "Use the latest 2019 driver. I have RX580 4GB as well and all the 2020 drivers are a complete sh.tshow with crashes, bugs, high cpu usage, and more bugs."

    paulerxx AMD 3600X + 5700XT ·4 days ago
    "Grab a 2070 Super and save yourself the headaches a lot of us are dealing with."

    For now if you need the latest game optimized drivers and can't stand dealing with driver bugs - instead of a 5700XT / 5700 get an Nvidia 2070 Super / 2060 Super.

    I'll update here should AMD stabilize their drivers enough release to release to keep new game optimization updates coming. :(
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
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  5. Talon

    Talon Notebook Virtuoso

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    They really need to get their drivers fixed ASAP. I keep seeing almost daily posts about switching from 5700XT to 2060 or 2070 Supers after frustrations with driver issues. It's a shame as the 5700XT is a good card when the drivers work properly and we don't need Nvidia uncontested.
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  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Even though I have no system problems, have overclocked nicely to all core 4.4ghz (3700x) and wasn't looking for any more tweaks or tuning right now, while looking at the Hardware Unboxed comments for fixes to help others with 5700xt / 5700 issues - I found this:

    Sid 1 hour ago
    "I'm trying 20.2.1 as well haven't had any crashes or black screens for the moment.. I used to have some micro stuttering in the division 2 but now i don't anymore.

    The only thing i did differently this time was enabling windows ultra performace mode. So i cant say that it was the driver that fixed it.. Maybe try that."

    I didn't remember seeing "Ultimate Performance" as a Windows 10 Power Plan option, and sure enough you need to enable it:

    C:\ powercfg -duplicatescheme e9a42b02-d5df-448d-aa00-03f14749eb61

    Power Scheme GUID: 35ad3a28-4412-4348-b060-ce3de5dc6196 (Ultimate Performance)

    It came out in 1803, and is still here in 1909:
    Ultimate Performance Power Plan added and enabled.JPG

    Here's a quick description:

    Windows 10: The Ultimate Performance power policy

    Add or Remove Ultimate Performance Power Plan in Windows 10

    Now that I have it enabled, I went into the Advanced settings, and I needed to tweak the usual - disable USB Selective Suspend, set the Sleep => power / sleep buttons to Hibernation, allow sleep in Multimedia settings, and...

    Disable Display Sleep after 15 minutes - set it to 0 = Never... so if your "black screen" happen's at exactly 15 minutes after idle on the desktop - it might be the automatic Display Sleep setting in Power Plan. Don't laugh I've run across this complaint before and that was the fix. :)

    IDK if this is really gonna make a difference - and I'm don't feel I am experiencing any of the things it's supposed to fix (Latency / Lag), but WTH I'll give the Windows 10 "Ultimate Performance" Power Plan a shot. :D

    Update: Surprised, that's what I am. Yup, it made a difference - and it spurred me on to look for another add-on (Process Lasso) I haven't used for a long time that also made a little bit more of a difference (Bitsum Power Plan), and between the two I ended up breaking through the barrier in benchmarking I had been stuck at.

    The new power plan(s) only gave a 0.1% straight-line improvement in CPU score, but the lower latency from whatever power tweaks are included bumped up my GPU score .5%, punching through to 10,942 Time Spy, where the best I had previously was 10,881.

    I know that doesn't sound like much, but when I first starting OC'ing I started under 10,000, so I didn't think I had a chance breaking past 11,000, but now IDK, maybe if I upgrade my cooling I could sustain that 4.5ghz OC and push over the top.

    Things do seem snappier, really, but that may just be euphoria over getting through the score barrier I've been stuck at for a while. No, I'm seeing complex web pages with lots of elements filling up much quicker and completing cleanly - not hanging waiting for the straggler objects.

    I checked my Ookla throughput and my ping response has never dropped below 11ms, and it's now at 8ms! Must be a coincidence...?

    Parkcontrol is a standalone subset of Process Lasso (still might try that again too, been a long time) that has the Bitsum Power Plan, along with an auto-switcher for dropping down to a less power hungry plan at idle - Power Saver is what I have selected.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
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  7. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    I wonder if there is to actually be a 3980x?
  8. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    The amount of people reporting issues with AMD drivers is I think WAY OVERBLOWN.
    Sure, some problems exist (I am well aware of that - static noise on Acer PH517-61 coming out of sleep mode I'm looking at you - which AMD still hadn't fixed, but in this instance Acer is also to blame due to them not making an effort into keeping support for the unit alive after 6 months) but likely not to the extent some of these people like to claim (in spite of the static noise issue, the stability, performance. etc. of the drivers [even latest ones prior to the attempted BIOS update killing my mobo] worked just fine - and even before that on the GL702ZC which kept breaking down due to Asus incompetence, AMD drivers worked wonderfully).

    A large portion of people are running unknown and very 'mixed' (messy even) configs (with possibly inadequate PSU's), they don't do DDU for driver removal nor do they have latest BIOS, latest Windows updates or chipset updates... in essence, they are ignoring 'common sense' and seem to be experiencing problems mainly due to 'user error' and aren't diligent enough to understand another component could be causing compatibility issues (it will actually be interesting to see if some of these people DO try to replace their GPU's with NV's only to end up with same problems).

    Plus, for some people, their Windows reaches a 'mess of a state' at some point they never try to even do a clean Windows install (some people did that and it solved their problems).
    For others, we like to keep on top of our OS-es and keep it generally tidy to avoid problems, but even we won't be shy of doing a clean install at some point.

    Mind you, I understand that 'doing things right' and exercising 'common sense' can still lead to problems, but doing so MINIMISES the possibility of problems occurring in the first place.
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  9. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    AMD: Threadripper 3990X Isn't Better on Windows 10 Enterprise | Feb 15, 2020

    "AMD officially recommends Windows 10 Professional or Linux for the AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X. Higher editions/versions of Windows 10 confer no additional performance or compatibility benefits to the processor. We understand that this suggestion has been made in the media, but we believe this to be an error in testing that our team is presently diagnosing.”
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  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    "AnandTech's recent review of the AMD Threadripper 3990X contained an interesting caveat: The website noted that Windows 10 Enterprise provided more performance than the Windows 10 Pro operating system that AMD recommended for testing. But AMD has told us that this isn't the case."

    "AMD officially recommends Windows 10 Professional or Linux for the AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3990X. Higher editions/versions of Windows 10 confer no additional performance or compatibility benefits to the processor [Build version does matter though, see below]. We understand that this suggestion has been made in the media, but we believe this to be an error in testing that our team is presently diagnosing.
    AMD recommended testing with Windows 10 Pro OS build 18362.592 (or greater) due to unspecified optimizations that ensured maximum performance.

    "AnandTech's purportedly incorrect test results could simply boil down to NUMA configurations of Windows versioning: AMD recommended testing with Windows 10 Pro OS build 18362.592 (or greater) due to unspecified optimizations that ensured maximum performance"

    ...The rest of the details in the article...

    So it looks like it comes down to the specific build version being the difference according to AMD.

    If AnandTech's results represented what they measured, AnandTech's results were correct as they saw and reported them.

    What was "wrong" according to AMD was AnandTech attributing the difference to Windows Enterprise ability to represent all 64c/128t together rather than separated by 2 NUMA groups.

    Whereas in previous Windows 10 testing that would be a problem(?), this time it's not(?) as long as your build is updated far enough. Instead the difference could have been the Build version of the Windows Pro testing. And, it could be a sum total of other differences as well including other Windows Enterprise advantages in their configuration(?):

    "It's possible that testing with an older version of Windows than the recommended distribution led to the performance gains AnandTech recorded, but there is currently no visibility into what led to the issue. It remains possible that there are a few scattered advantages for using the Enterprise version of Windows instead of the Pro, but AMD said that its testing, like ours, didn't find any meaningful performance improvements that would merit a step up to the Enterprise or Workstation versions of Windows 10. "

    The bottom line is great news, we don't need Windows Enterprise to get the best performance out of the 3990x, but I would assume many (most?) 3990x corporate purchases will end up on a site license for Windows Enterprise anyway. :)

    Let's see what Anandtech responds with...[I'll update later]
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020

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