AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    That's too bad, you seem to have reasoned yourself into a dead end with this. I was trying to be nice and cheer you up, but if you insist in wallowing in defeat, there's nothing more I can say that'll cheer you up.

    It seems a shame to ignore 2 perfectly good upgrade CPU's with more cores that for many applications will be a large % improvement over the 1950x. Dwelling on what doesn't work ignores the larger percentage of what does work.

    And, Windows may continue to suck just as much with higher core count Zen 2 ThreadRipper 3's, and Intel HEDT CPU's, and Linux will remain the best option for getting full value from high core count CPU's.

    With prices dropping on 2970x/2990wx's they are far more affordable than ever. Maybe you'll come around later. I hope so.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  2. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    I know that they make them appealing to me, but then again I dont ever pay top dollar for near anything. I live in the used market.
     
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Robert Hallock answers questions about 3rd Gen ThreadRipper and the 3950x, starts at 07:00:

    Special edition: AMD talks 3rd Gen Threadripper and 3950X | The Full Nerd

    PCWorld
    In today's special episode we are joined by AMD's Senior Technical Marketing Manager Robert Hallock to talk about 3rd Gen Threadripper launch details and Ryzen 9 3950X.
    Streamed live on Nov 7, 2019
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  4. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    This isn't about cheering me up. I disappeared off of here to clear my mind and reappraise the situation. As I did, I restated clearly why people were upset, why AMD promising longer compatibility for TRX40 as a response is even dumber (because of the tech changes in 2021 and a failure to understand the violation of consumer expectations now isn't just about a long lived socket, rather it was the word Zen would last to 2020; consumers don't care if it is a 2-year platform, they just want to know up front the life span; then painting themselves into a corner for 2021 is the DUMBEST THING THE COMPANY CAN DO, and yes, presenting it as long lived, if they don't pull that BS back right now, they are going to seriously fork themselves in 2 years), why the alternative offerings are insufficient, and why not just leveling with people is dumb as hell.

    Then you have rlk pushing a legal argument on whether or not the company could be held liable in court for misleading consumers (yank), further harming brand goodwill in the process (if you are right on the substance, shut up, it doesn't need repeated; this only further pushes people like me to dig into old statements, and I'm darn good with research, which I've held off on to this point). Hell, even you point to power delivery, which I called awhile ago it being a VRM issue for the change. This means they damn well knew a new MB was needed back at CES. WHY NOT LEVEL WITH CONSUMERS? Or last year with the MEG Creation? That is likely when the decision was made, last summer to fall. That would have allowed people planning upgrade compatibility to shift gears. There were so many opportunities. But fear of missing sales just burned goodwill on the portfolio. Just be happy this wasn't during Dozer days, because if the current lineup wasn't good, AMD would have a larger problem.

    Finally, if those two chips were a worthwhile upgrade for me, don't you think I would have done it. For all the rants I've given ole!!! About the importance of memory bandwidth, do you think I haven't analyzed how my workloads could be effected by the switch to those chips? They aren't bad for some workloads. The one I'd want it for, it isn't fit for the job, but the new Zen 2 chip would be. It's that simple.
     
  5. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    None of the original TR gen would look at Zen+ as an upgrade. Maybe if the 10 to 15% improvement were actually there but it was not. We all though forgave AMD and moved on as 7nm was around the corner and real improvements were in the winds. Well we all see where waiting has led us. This latest issue though will not make us do what we refused to do from the get go.
     
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  6. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    I'm still looking forward to it all the same :)
     
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  7. rlk

    rlk Notebook Evangelist

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    I don't believe I ever made any claims of a legal nature or said anything at all about liability. I said that I'm not aware that AMD made any claims about the longevity of TR4, only AM4. And I've found an interview with James Prior, Senior Product Manage for AMD's Client Computing Group for Desktop CPUs (and specifically on the Threadripper side) from 2017, who made at least two references to extended support for AM4, but said nothing about similar for Threadripper: https://hothardware.com/news/amd-confirms-am4-socket-support-future-ryzen-processors-2020
     
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    When new CPU releases come out they are often far too overpriced to make sense in upgrading for the performance uplift, so I wait for their price to drop - or less expensive used units are available.

    Now that the 2970x / 2990wx prices are dropping that's why I suggested TR2 upgrades to you two now [before stock disappears]...AMD is saying TR2 is remaining in production to cover the range between $750 - $1300 - still price / performance competitive to Intel's HEDT.

    Now the 2970x / 2990wx have aged with improved high core count Windows support, and the TR2 prices have already dropped hundreds of $, with the prices likely to drop a bit more - as long as production is continuing otherwise they will become more scarce, so that's why I mention it now - there's a window of accessibility with a lower price that might not last.

    For 1st gen TR owners the 2nd gen TR's are the last available "upgrades", whether perfect or not they are the only game in town. When new - too expensive - now cheaper and the "last chance" upgrade.

    If you were looking for a 3rd Gen 24c I would think a 2nd Gen 32c for less than the 3rd Gen 24c would be cool.

    --------------------------------------------

    After listening to Robert Hallock talk about the TR3 on TRX40 motherboard I understand why AMD didn't also make a duplicate set of TR3's for x399.

    The TRX40 motherboard chipset offers 8 x PCIE 4.0 lanes to the CPU - with a new IO chip - at a fair price for the upgrade.

    To offer a duplicate set of x399 TR3 CPU's with the old x399 IO chip onboard at the same price wouldn't be attractive even to those with x399 due to the large drop in comparable performance.

    We'd be paying the same or more for an x399 "3960x / 3970x" version with less performance.

    Given a choice - adding on the cost of a new motherboard to get all of the performance out of the TR3 upgrade / cost would make more sense.

    The x399 "3960x / 3970x" versions would be stuck on x399 - you could't put that version in a TRX40 motherboard for an additional upgrade later.

    Even if it made sense AMD would be doubling their development and production setup costs over potentially the same audience of customers, raising the cost for both TRX40 and x399 versions of the TR3's.

    When you look at it that way it really makes more sense to jump to the new socket and require motherboard upgrades.

    Anyway, check out that PCWorld AMD Special with Robert and early on he covers TR3, and without explicitly saying x399 versions of TR3 didn't make sense, it's clear they didn't make performance or economic sense to also release x399 TR3's.

    Looking at TR1 vs TR2 the single core performance has a small bump in performance, but more cores is more cores - and is a good upgrade if your workset's benefit from higher core count processing. That's all I am trying to suggest.

    If doubling the core count from 1950x 16c to 2990x 32c doesn't improve workload throughput then sure it's not worth doing for that application.

    With a x399 version of TR3 the loss of performance from losing the memory channels, PCIE 4.0, and PCIE 4.0 lanes between the chipset and the TR3 CPU would reduce the single core workload performance improvement and all we'd end up getting is the benefits from more cores going from 1950x 16c to 3960x 24c or 3970x 32c.

    Then we are back to not seeing much improvement from the upgrade - unless you also moved from x399 to TRX40 to get the full performance potential of the TR3 upgrade.

    We need the whole TRX40 system upgrade to see the full benefit of the TR3 upgrade.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    ThreadRipper / 3950x thoughts...

    Threadripper 3000: AMD's Victory Lap around Themselves!
    Moore's Law Is Dead
    Published on Nov 7, 2019
    Threadripper 3000 is expensive, but it’s not your only option. There are some overlooked gems out there right now for both gaming-first people and professionals. Either way this is a victory lap!
    1) 0:08 Yeah, it’s expensive – but I warned you. Upgrade now!
    2) 2:00 Why AMD is still increasing margins.
    3) 3:25 24-core Threadripper for under $1,000.
    4) 5:20 The 3950X is actually perfect for creator-gamers.
    5) 7:15 AMD is now 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place for creators.
    6) 8:37 Final thoughts on pricing and what’s coming next year.


    An Update on the AM4 Platform & AGESA 1004
    Submitted 4 days ago by AMDOfficial Official AMD Account - announcement
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/dtgutp/an_update_on_the_am4_platform_agesa_1004/

    "AM4 Platform Updates
    AMD has recently released a new AGESA to manufacturers, version 1004. With over 150 changes, this is a significant milestone release in the development of the AM4 platform. We wanted to share some background in support of our release and particularly in advance of the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X processor launch on Nov. 25th.

    Also..."if you have an older Ryzen CPU and have been waiting for a major AGESA release: this is it!"
    AGESA 1004 Schedule
    AGESA 1004 is primarily focused on stability, and here are the essentials you need to know:
    1. This is the only AGESA validated and recommended for the AMD Ryzen 9 3950X. Your motherboard must have a BIOS with AGESA 1004 for full and proper support.
    2. It adds final support for "Eco Mode," accessible via Ryzen Master. Eco Mode brings AMD Configurable TDP (cTDP) technology to 3rd Gen Ryzen. With one button, you can run a 95W/105W model at 65W, or 65W models at 45W. This feature has been especially fun to use with the 3900X—12 cores at 65W! We know some of you have been very interested in a configuration like this, and now you can have it with the touch of a button. :)
    3. AGESA 1004 is the "big one" that reunites the codebase for all AM4-compatible processors. Up until now, 3rd Gen Ryzen has been a fork of the mainline. So, if you have an older Ryzen CPU and have been waiting for a major AGESA release: this is it! This will allow motherboard vendors to unify their CPU and chipset support lists on one codebase.
    4. As a major stability release, you're undoubtedly curious about the major changes. Here are some of the big ones:
      1. AMD X570 stability and compatibility with add-in devices.
      2. Improvements to interoperability of PCIe, USB, SATA, and device reset capabilities.
      3. Additional enhancements for PCIe device support and stability.
      4. Improved system stability when switching through ACPI power states.
      5. Improved POST/boot times. This will vary by motherboard.
    5. There are also two performance enhancements: improvements to fastest core utilization, and further boost frequency optimizations for the AMD Ryzen 9 3900X.
    6. Because of the size and complexity of AGESA 1004, and the extensive regression testing required on older motherboards (unified codebase), please expect the QA and release schedule to take a few weeks yet for older motherboards. For newer motherboards, like AMD X570, releases have already started to hit the web over the past 2 weeks.
    In summary, lots of goodness coming in AGESA 1004 and we look forward to hearing your feedback. Thanks for reading—We really appreciate it.

    Pretty cool Epyc server...Love the Fan Spin-up...

    128-Core AMD Epyc Rome Server Tear-Down, ft. Level1Techs
    Gamers Nexus
    Published on Nov 12, 2019
    In this video, we work with Wendell from Level1Techs to tear-down one of the world's fastest computers: A 128-core Epyc build with support up to 4TB of RAM.
    This AMD Epyc server is a dual-socket configuration in a Gigabyte chassis with capacity for up to 4TB of memory, 24 NVMe drives, and plenty more. The server has numerous world records and is semi-overclockable, and in our video, we'll take it apart (as much as we're allowed) to look closer at the base components of this monster server. These cost tens of thousands of dollars to configure, mostly depending on the expansion devices chosen. It's probably the highest-end system we'll have in our video set in some time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  10. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

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    gonna have to correct you here, other point need to be considered where they are testing water and is very likely to be the case. precisely the point of going after a small group who has money and willing to spend lots for an expensive platform, the perfect group to pull this on actually.

    this goes through, mainstream is next.


    not so much that, its how much he'd have to spend for a such a small upgrade. if i was in his position and a 2990wx cost only few hundred this would be still be a decent upgrade. 16-32 cores, tiny ipc and frequency bumps, sell old cpu so new cpu cost even less.

    definitely still sucks can't get that 15% ipc and power efficiency though. lower temp = higher clocks so more performance to be squeezed.
     
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