AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    7,072
    Messages:
    20,420
    Likes Received:
    25,219
    Trophy Points:
    931
    It's actually awesome that everyone can get full performance out of the box - it's what I have been hoping to see implemented for 30+ years since I discovered OC'ing and how much performance was left unavailable for everyone.

    OC'ing and tuning has been a constant distraction and a huge waste of time that could have been spent more productively / enjoyably. It's such a basic automatic tuning that we should have had as standard many years ago.

    I blame Intel for the most part as being the industry leader. Intel should have captured that "lost" performance and made it available to everyone long ago.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
    rlk and jaybee83 like this.
  2. rlk

    rlk Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    132
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    292
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Exactly. Overclocking (sans exotics like LN2, or risking failures/data corruption, or putting your chip at risk from thermals) means that the vendor left performance on the table. AMD has (correctly, in your and my view) decided not to do that.
     
    jaybee83 and hmscott like this.
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    7,072
    Messages:
    20,420
    Likes Received:
    25,219
    Trophy Points:
    931
    What I've been waiting for, the HU OC Navi 5700 with waterblock, here's the EK + 5700K @ 18% OC, hopefully the AIB boards will stretch out the lead even more:

    Radeon RX 5700 XT Overclocked, RTX 2080-Like Performance?
    Hardware Unboxed
    Published on Jul 24, 2019
    Radeon RX 5700 XT, Overclocked to The Limits


    TimmyJoe's new Anniversary 50th Edition 5700XT is running too hot stock - low fan curve out of the box - and it's started artifacting out of the box. Needs a better cooler at those frequencies / tuning... but it was running as fast as his Radeon VII... still a fun video, especially the beginning.

    My 5700 XT Anniversary died after 3 hours of gaming...
    Timmy Joe PC Tech
    Published on Jul 19, 2019
    I bought the AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT to be the first to review it and it started to artifact at stock clocks after only 3 hours of use...
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2019
  4. Ashtrix

    Ashtrix ψυχή υπεροχή

    Reputations:
    1,914
    Messages:
    1,899
    Likes Received:
    2,600
    Trophy Points:
    181
    It is indeed tragic.

    Both Clocks and OC, latter is dead. Basically these are so maxed out just like a Tesla electric car or any "it just works" type of stuff, ak.a Apple. You can't tune them or modify them. Except to pray that all planets are aligned for that precious ST boost for the little bit of juice that occurs in the sea of confusion (more later) with their retarded terminologies - PPT, PB, PBO (No significant improvement), Auto OCand what not bu removing all OC and only expect OOTB max, and a Voltage curve type autoboosting, as GN Steve says it's more of a like the Ngreedia's stupid Pascal Temp scaling with less control. No fun or enthusiasm anymore as AMD is eating away all it's OC headroom and setting a CPU SKU at every pricepoint for the bins to beat Intel. And also to note how the Intel CPU clocks stay rock solid until it hits the CPU core TJmax with Power limitations removed, no drama.



    If you tinker too much, It'll just end up nerfing the CPU since the PBO takes care well as per the reviews. To add salt, you can't even use HWInfo or CPU-Z or any tool to monitor the Ryzen 3000 chips because their Ryzen Master software only is capable of showing the proper appropriate information, forget TS sadly, TS helped me achieve more clocks/voltage and total power and optimize my CPU, It's just brilliant engineering by Unclewebb. There is high dependency of Temp (Alr posted but again) and then Voltage dependent scaling on these, yes ofc you can tweak them but by how much ? also there is high voltage going on with these chips. I think it's more of a reason (My guess) due to the TSMC process not being optimized for these beastly x86 desktop parts, vs that stupid A series processors (stupid because they are relegated to be used only for a Social media withdrawl fixation toy vs Android / powerful OS) also they pay a tonne for R&D to TSMC.



    Add the continuous OS updates (This is an unfortunate byproduct, Intel optimized SW until now and all but at the expense of the latest Win10 1903 ? that's like choosing the worse of cancer varieties) then we have the upcoming updates and expect another OS optimization maybe (?) when 4000 hits. That means LTSC won't cut it for X570 and Ryzen 3000. This is more of a niche issue but it is an issue nonetheless due to the perpetual alpha OS of Win10, 6Mo EOL and 18Mo support max for the SAC releases so it will never be stable. Period. However the software scaling across the SMT/HT will be interesting cadence...The performance of the Ryzen 3000 is undeniably excellent and the value as well ofc still not a king in gaming, 9900K still is the king followed by 9700K (3600 vs 3600x vs 3700 vs 3700x vs 3800x all are ~6% off lol). They improved the IMC this round but as with the Fclk and Uclk this time and the IF all go in hands, there is automatic override of the IF frequency if DRAM speed goes over 3600/3733MHz. IIRC there is one step there instead of leaving it auto, one can manually adjust it to maximize further perhaps (Need GN video on it) but that 4000MHz "Plug it, just works" is a hogwash as it impacts the Perf severely, we might not see it in some loads just because of the eDRAM/L3/Gamecache on the Zen 2 parts. SKL Mem scaling & Z390 Memory scaling.



    Then we have this X570 thing, the plastic shrouds all over the place for the active cooling chipset for the Matisse repurposed GF 14nm dies from EPYC/Rome (?) except one chipset, X570 Aorus Extreme, shame that ASUS Crosshair VIII (Even Formula) didn't went for this approach. And ofc we miss the god-tier EVGA in action due to their business partnerships.



    Finally, 2 more things that I wanted to speak about..

    One - No damn datasheet on the Ryzen processors or the chipsets or any. The AMD site has all old junk documentation. I wonder these PPT and PBO and PB all are mentioned from the reviewers guide not any datasheet, With Intel you can have a datasheet dating all the way back and gain a TON of knowledge on the excellence of technology of the CPUs to chipsets and even gimp tech (TVB, cTDP) just off them. It's a shame. AMD as a company which is not divested into failures like Intel's McAfee / smartphone Atom division didn't get a documentation done (Except for 2017's Ryzen Master and OC guide, perhaps it's a v1 of the reviewers guide) as a company which is more into core processor business than Intel, esp given the size. Inexcusable.

    Tw0 - Intel is sad. They had this 22nm technology showcased with FinFet Ivy Bridge where all rivals were scrambling and ultimately got at 14nm and then lost their total leadership totally and fell off grace due to zero competition, this is a major issue with these gigantic corporations. Add the political drama angle then we have the 10nm disaster, all line up with their ambitious flops at other industries instead of the bread and butter, prestigious core business. The long term path whoever laid the Core uArch was excellent unlike the investor driven greed, both Apple and Intel have billions in bank. FF to now, no Ring bus anymore past 10C and the Process depedency, ultimately clocks. I think the age of 5GHz will be soon over, once Intel's 14nm++ the mega optimized node is done building over Foveros and "Wider" uarch won't allow them to scale clocks like this era. Unless Intel innovates again like Sandy Bridge era (Jim Keller magic ? like the Israel Core team..) And I hope Intel keeps this OC game going forth, the tuning and optimizing, tinkering is just fantastic, esp they still mention Moore's law in place.. just like the sonic bliss of the old Naturally Aspirated engines with stick shifts vs the latest era of dumpyard automatic/autopilot/hybrid joke small engines with turbos what not.

    See below for the downgrade on F1, from Driver skill to automation and ofc the Symphony of sound from the golden era.



    Still waiting on the news of the Cometlake / Rocketlake and Z390, I want a beast of the CPU which runs old OSes (Win7 / 8.1) and games (New political agenda driven games are ruining franchises add the MTX disaster with the Always OL games.. multiply with the stupid Cloud BS, they don't want us to own anything) without any hassles and games at highest FPS but also a bit of Platform life, the X570 refresh in 2020 might not happen, If it happens then it's really bad, I think these overbuilt VRMs and Power connectors are the reason for that another cycle of Ryzen, the chipset refresh for Zen 4000 will be horrible in market, since we are alr seeing the X470 re-launch with extra BIOS memory chips (Only reason being the sales the companies are expecting off the old gen SKUs vs the X570) So X670 / or whatever refresh doesn't make sense to me at all, buying a top end SKU of Mobo now makes sense for a new buyer.

    One last thing, TR3000, I do not think it will have high boost frequencies, the Mainstream CPUs are themselves hitting hard walls at the current temps/voltage. That CPU will be a beast but expecting uber high clocks is not possible, and also factor the power consumption/Heat too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2019
    triturbo, hmscott, Papusan and 2 others like this.
  5. rlk

    rlk Notebook Evangelist

    Reputations:
    132
    Messages:
    560
    Likes Received:
    292
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Aye, there's the rub, no? Is it about competition/bragging rights or getting good performance?
     
    hmscott and electrosoft like this.
  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    7,072
    Messages:
    20,420
    Likes Received:
    25,219
    Trophy Points:
    931
    For all you "fans" of active cooling on motherboards, here's a review of x570 motherboards "noise" @ idle / load:

    X570 Chipset Fan Noise Comparison - Who makes the quietest X570 motherboards?
    Techtesters
    Published on Jul 27, 2019
    - To keep this video short and to the point I didn't go into every test detail, so just ask if you're interested!
    - Note that during this test all chipsets had mild airflow from the GPU and CPU. It is very much possible to heat up the chipset beyond the ~50-55 we typically see if you use a poor airflow case.
    - I didn't mention it later in the video, but the Aorus ITX boards results are correct and differ from it's ATX counterparts. It runs a few degrees warmer, but still plenty cool it's basically quiet all the time. Just remember this board doesn't have a Gen 4 expansion slot on the chipset, so the only load there is the Gen4 SSD.
    - If you own a Gigabyte board and don't see the fan control, update your bios to the latest version.
    - If you want me to test more boards, let me know! It takes a long time to test this, so I'll only do it if you guys show me you care about it!
    - Questions? Just ask :)


    @ idle a number of boards have a fan stop / off setting for noiseless operation:
    x570 idle noise - fan stop options make most silent at idle.jpg

    With only about a 5c difference at maximum in idle vs load there seems to be not much need for an active fan cooling with current PCIE 4.0 usage...
    x570 load noise.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
    jaybee83 likes this.
  7. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

    Reputations:
    26,107
    Messages:
    24,796
    Likes Received:
    43,829
    Trophy Points:
    931
    hmscott likes this.
  8. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

    Reputations:
    2,530
    Messages:
    9,535
    Likes Received:
    4,939
    Trophy Points:
    431
    I saw price gouging early on, this is not news to me. yes it would be nice if supply was better.
     
    ajc9988, Papusan and hmscott like this.
  9. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

    Reputations:
    26,107
    Messages:
    24,796
    Likes Received:
    43,829
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Yeah I know, sir. We saw same happened with Intel. Many complained this was only a Intel problem from day 1 when they released 8700K. Not as easy. But this is not good for customers regardless what manufacturers products they prefer/want.
     
    hmscott likes this.
  10. electrosoft

    electrosoft Tick Tock Clarice....

    Reputations:
    1,830
    Messages:
    2,888
    Likes Received:
    582
    Trophy Points:
    131
    Well, you have the overclocking/hardware enthusiast market that want to overclock over spec and have come to expect that given margin of headroom Intel tends to bake into their chips for later binning/selling and then you
    have Joe Basic User (JBU) who wants the CPU to work out of the box as is and doesn't care about tweaking.

    AMD is shooting for max performance right out of the box. For JBU, this is a godsend as it means they won't have to worry about tweaking for optimal performance for the most part and will get effectively all the CPU can deliver from
    box to system. This isn't a bad thing.

    For overclocking enthusiasts, this really diminishes the overclocking margins to work with to get a major performance bump out of the chip and that's a bummer. But I tend to think the overclocking segment of the market is not
    AMDs target or concern. To a smaller extent, I don't think It is Intel's either. It just happens to be a byproduct of how Intel develops and delivers their CPUs (for now).
     
    triturbo, jaybee83, TANWare and 2 others like this.
Loading...

Share This Page