AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris/Navi GPUs

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Pretty standard stock trading tradition, Buy on Rumor - stock goes up, Sell on News / Delivery / Reality - stock goes down.

    Enjoy the happy news of the new product releases, rather than the OT boring stock news.

    What is this a business site, or a technology site?? :confused::p:D
     
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  2. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    LOL
     
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  3. ghegde

    ghegde Notebook Evangelist

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    So TR and Epyc are awesome but vega makes up for it :(

    keen to see how vega handles professional , specially DNN/AI scenarios
     
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  4. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    We still don't have Vega's official benchmarks, so we don't know how it will perform with the newly released drivers.

    In all reality, we do know several things about AMD's gpus:
    1. They are overvolted - resulting in higher total TDP and power consumption - plus, gaming TDP does not necessarily correlate with maximum reported TDP of the whole GPU.
    2. They can almost ALWAYS be undervolted - especially the later samples as they are usually of better silicon quality in comparison to reference GPU's - so the overall power consumption of an average Vega GPU will probably be much closer to that of Pascal.
    3. Vega was apparently pitted against both 1080 and 1080ti in blind tests, and in both, it seemed to have suffered from less stutter - had higher minimum framerates - and in this retrospect I can see why AMD might be targeting/optimizing for this segment, seeing how achieving 200+ FPS is of little consequence if the minimum FPS is next to garbage, resulting in stutter and ruining gameplay - plus, recent release of newest Crimson drivers (which seem to be specifically tailored for Vega) might show us higher overall performance than what people seem to be expecting - and it would be interesting what future drivers will bring to the table for Vega.
    4. AMD also has a Vega GPU with 220W TDP and Vega Nano at 150W (the 220W one can probably be undervolted to match or be close to 1070 power consumption - if targeted to that GPU, while Nano is likely underclocked and possibly voltage adjusted out of the box).

    So, for all intense and purposes, this was basically a paper launch with official release set on the 14th August.
    Wonderful... more waiting for official numbers.
    And if AMD releases new drivers for Vega in the interim, I don't think reviewers will necessarily use them (as they have a tendency to frequently test new GPU's with outdated drivers).
     
  5. Support.2@XOTIC PC

    Support.2@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    Might be stability related, a lot wait until a driver has been confirmed before running performance tests based on the assumption that it's a stable driver.
     
  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Why say things like that that seem to completely dismiss AMD Vega / RX GPU's when they clearly appeal to the largest market segments?

    The Vega64 is faster than the RX580 / 1060 / 1060 Max-Q / 1070 / 1070 Max-Q / 1080 / 1080 Max-Q.

    The Vega56 is faster than the RX580 / 1060 / 1060 Max-Q / 1070 / 1070 Max-Q / 1080 Max-Q(?).

    And the prices come in well under the Nvidia GPU's.

    Only the 1080ti and the other Nvidia way overpriced GPU's are faster, and that's a very small part of the market.
     
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  7. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Can we ever be certain that drivers are stable?
    Whom actually uses 'stable' drivers these days from AMD?
    Beta is usually what they have available and those seem to be as stable as anything else for the most part.
    There's that and the fact that RTG is releasing new (stable) drivers at shorter intervals, so as I said... by the time Vega is fully released, we might see far better drivers that make full use of the Vega hardware perhaps (that is if the current ones are unoptimized, and apparently, it seems AMD confirmed they are).
    This could inadvertently hurt Vega's reviews if reviewers end up making benchmarks with older drivers that are still unoptimized.
     
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  8. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Yes, but some people will complain about something else:
    Power consumption.

    Even now, some are saying that Vega's targets (1070 and 1080) consume half as much power for same gaming performance, and that it took AMD a large amount of time to get there vs Nvidia (granted, they are neglecting the fact that AMD is strapped for cash which probably contributed to a late release).

    I can see their point though as Vega has a rather large die, high transistor count, is on a new manuf. process, but in their eyes 'only' achieves 1070 and 1080 level of performance in gaming (unconfirmed as of yet of course because its all based on Vega FE performance which had unoptimized gaming drivers) without taking into account AMD overvolting to increase yields, or that non-reference GPU's are likely to undervolt better and bring down power consumption while stabilizing the GPU and prevent throttling which would also increase performance.

    As I said... reviewers likely won't help the matter as they will never mention these points.
     
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    As with Nvidia lately (for months and months) there has been a constant onslaught of bad drivers with broken features and worse performance back and forth, so hopefully Nvidia's trained people to be patient for driver fixes and performance fixes.

    AMD could, but hopefully won't, do worse than Nvidia :)

    Also Ryzen's performance improvements from firmware updates, game updates, (OS Updates?) have also trained people to expect lower performance at release than after a few rounds of updates.

    It's a beautiful world for AMD.

    Intel's gonna need to buck up and do it's best to avoid dirty tricks to make up for low performance, same for Nvidia. :p:eek::D
     
  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Intel is the power sucking king right now, so I think they will draw the most "heat" ;)

    The Vega power draw may improve, as it already has from the FE release - the power saving features were completely disabled for FE and are enabled for RX Vega - FE should get firmware updates to fix them.

    Maximum power draw is a thing, but often as with Peak Temperature readings, you can over think and fixate on the peaks when the average and in between peaks are much lower.

    I think we need more graphs and real usage monitoring.

    Not saying Vega is going to be cured of it's power fixation, just saying as will all tunable things, AMD will continue to improve as it can.

    Hopefully the "aura" of Vega power draw will keep away the mining community, that's one good benefit for gamers :)
     
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