AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris GPUs

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I saw an article somewhere that said the memory alone accounted for nearly half the cost of the R7.

    I hope AIB 5700/XT cards will be released soon as I'm not a fan of blower style coolers.
     
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  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    The Beard finally gets some results, and under the "Spoiler Timestamps" is a long detailed index into what occurred during his long LN2 session:

    Record set:
    2:26:17 5.35GHz at 1.85 - [CB15] 2835 VALIDATED

    "...we found that AMD Ryzen Memory performance is key at the proper FCLK and MEM Dividers, basically 1900 on fclk and 3800 mem is the optimized point and getting the lowest latencies possible is key."

    "Slacker Live" Stream 006-Overclocking-Ryzen 3700x at 5.2ghz+ 1.9+Volts
    bearded hardware
    Streamed live 10 hours ago
    The normal "Slacker Live" stream will be every Thursday 4pm EST(NYC).
    ...Now that the bios issues are resolved and basic scores acheived, its time to push the limits. 1.6 was needed to 5.2, so lets test to 1.9 After messing with memory on the last 004 stream, we found that AMD Ryzen Memory performance is key at the proper FCLK and MEM Dividers, basically 1900 on fclk and 3800 mem is the optimized point and getting the lowest latencies possible is key. The rumors with fclk is that they cause issues with Cold bug on LN2, we will find out and see if we can break the 8 core records.
    Pinned by bearded hardware
    Krakup Kiwi 2 hours ago (edited)
    Some timestamps i have so far
    1:03:40 2793 Cinebench
    1:07:28 2812 CRASHED
    1:22:08 2804 in Cinebench R15 (Crashed)
    1:37:00 FULL POT 5.3GHz 2974
    1:39:40 RUN IT AGAIN
    1:41:40 2801
    1:42:55 5.35GHz at 1.8v - 2805
    1:45:18 5.375GHz at 1.85v - CRASH
    1:47:57 EMPTY POT AND RESTART
    2:00:50 5.0ghZ AT 1.8v
    2:24:32 5.3GHz at 1.8v and 1.85v - 2747
    2:25:46 5.325GHz at 1.85v - 2792
    2:26:17 5.35GHz at 1.85 - 2835 VALIDATED
    2:28:45 5.375GHz AT 1.85v - CRASH AND REBOOT
    2:30:28 5.375GHz AT 1.9v - CRASH AND REBOOT
    2:32:26 5GHz AT 1.8v -2626
    2:33:24 5.325 at 1.825v 2794
    2:34:42 5.35GHz at 1.825 2792
    2:37:00 IS IT DONE?? Time to heat up and raise the Infinity Fabric


    Jay sits down and runs through OC'ing the 3900x, including dealing with Asus overvolting - correcting it before OC'ing, and he got some good results:

    AMD 3900X Overclocking explained... How to get improvements!
    JayzTwoCents
    Published on Jul 10, 2019
    Overclocking AMDs new Zen 2 based CPUs can be a challenge... here are our results from our days of testing multiple configs and what gave us the greatest improvements.


    Finally, some 3800x benchmarks, but he didn't have his chosen ideal cooling solution ready, so even though the 3800x hit 4.5ghz in boost the sustained max was 4.2ghz all core limited by cooling, look for updates when he gets the cooling sorted:

    My 3800X benches
    Submitted 18 hours ago * by HylianSavior
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbcjh7/my_3800x_benches/

    HylianSaviorS] 3 points 3 hours ago
    "Hah, yeah. I arrived home with my 3800X and realized I didn’t have my AIO AM4 bracket and I was fresh out of Kryonaut, so I had to settle for 5 year old AS5. Ordered the bracket and some more paste, so I’m hoping for some improved PBO results soon!"

    HylianSaviorS] 14 points 18 hours ago
    "Got it from Micro Center! They just came in stock this morning."

    Ryzen 3 CPU responds to load with accompanying voltage increases due to monitoring tools interrogation @ 5x / second causing frequency boosts and voltage increases - keeping the CPU from idling most efficiently. Robert Hallock of AMD responded a bunch of times in this thread - lots of good reading. The summary includes a link to another thread with more info too:

    The final word on idle voltages for 3rd Gen Ryzen
    Submitted 3 hours ago * by AMD_Robert Technical Marketing
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbls9g/the_final_word_on_idle_voltages_for_3rd_gen_ryzen/

    "tl;dr: Observer effect bad. You can't always trust your tools. CPU-Z gives you the right idle voltage. We'll look at the rest. Thank you everyone for your reports and insight, which helped us get to the bottom of this once and for all."

    AMD_Robert Technical Marketing 36 points 19 hours ago
    "Your understanding is correct. The cores are on and boosted at the voltages you're seeing, or asleep and unreadable with normal tools.

    //edit: One other point I forgot to make, is that Ryzen adjusts clocks and voltages every 1ms. Most tools only capture every 1000 to 2000ms, so they're not showing you very much of what Ryzen is doing. HWINFO can adjust the timing resolution down to 100ms if you wanted but, even then, it's only showing you 1 of 100 possible samples. And it's still not going to show you if the core is asleep or not."

    AMD_Robert Technical Marketing 43 points 19 hours ago
    "Worry not! Everything looks a-ok. I guess the key takeaway for anyone who stumbles by this thread in the future is that the CPU's own logic determines what voltages are appropriate for the current condition(s).

    Those conditions include: temperature, time under boost, number of active cores, number of sleeping cores, the "weight" of the thread, VRM temperatures, and more. Lots of telemetry goes into the decision to pick a clockspeed and voltage.

    We built that firmware. We don't let anything interfere with it unless you manually OC the chip. That firmware would never do anything risky with voltage, and we know that because we built it that way. :)"

    Robert Hallock ‏Verified account @Thracks 5h5 hours ago
    Seeing chatter about idle voltages on 3rd Gen Ryzen. Here's the skinny: Some of the monitoring tools have aggressive polling intervals. They frequently wake every core to ask for status, which the CPU interprets as "PLS BOOST."
    https://twitter.com/Thracks/status/1149041978107211776

    "DID YOU KNOW? The new version of AMD Ryzen Master can show you core behavior that other tools can't or don't! Examples include: cc6 sleeping cores, sub-2200MHz idle cores, sub-1V idle voltages, fastest CPU physical core, your motherboard's VRM capacity, and more."
    https://twitter.com/Thracks/status/1148810420884561920

    Here's compatibility tests with a B350 + Ryzen 3's CPU from Hardware Unboxed:


    Ryzen 9 3900X On a B350 Motherboard, Does It Cook?

    Hardware Unboxed
    Published on Jul 10, 2019


    Gamers Nexus's inexpensive DIY solution to assist GPU / heatplate pressure to improve cooling for the 5700 / 5700XT that doesn't require a new cooler, improving the existing cooler with new paste + more pressure on the cooler to the GPU:

    Fixing the RX 5700 XT Cooler for $0.04 | Paste & Washers vs. Thermal Pad
    Gamers Nexus
    Published on Jul 10, 2019
    We added some washers and thermal paste to the RX 5700 XT cooler to fix some of its previously dismal performance. We also used 4 washers, found easily. The idea is to fix the mounting pressure issue on the RX 5700 XT cooler, a similar issue exhibited by the Radeon VII cooler. This addresses some of the thermal and temperature/noise concerns by bringing down overall GPU temperature, thus allowing lower noise levels at the same performance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  3. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    Now that AMD is showing such great performance offerings they need some OEM wins. Once available in stock systems they can truly start to see some major market share.
     
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  4. senso

    senso Notebook Evangelist

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    HP and Dell will make then favours using DDR4-2133Mhz in single channel, using cooling solutions fit for 10Watts using 25Watts CPU's, like they usually do, so that the AMD equiped laptop will be sure to be slower and run hotter/louder than its Intel equivalent..
     
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  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Maybe not this time. This time Intel doesn't have an equal performance / cost solution for vendors to fall back on - to focus on - and those same vendors have been messed around with by Intel on 10nm, not delivering when promised - causing vendors to waste time and resources on projects that never completed.

    Self preservation should kick in allowing vendors to deliver functional and desirable AMD models with sane configurations and pricing.

    IDK how soon this can happen, but I'm sure there are top engineers working on configuring new models, right now.
    eg9wjy1v8o931.jpg
    A 3900x/5700XT laptop would be awesome, huge, powerful, and not expensive?

    Maybe a nice 3700x + 5700 would suffice, a nice balance of performance and cool operation.

    MSI?, Asus?, AMD?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
    electrosoft, ole!!! and Deks like this.
  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    AMD RIS, or AMD Radeon Image Sharpening looks good and only uses 1%-2% of the FPS, and it works on [DX9, Vulkan, DX12 - no DX11 support, yet?] existing games, HU does a good job of running through the technology, testing games, and showing the improvement.

    Radeon Image Sharpening Tested, Navi's Secret Weapon For Combating Nvidia
    Hardware Unboxed
    Published on Jul 11, 2019


    RAY M 3 hours ago
    "unlike NVIDIA Dlss game developer doesnt require to implement just go settings and turn it on and works. well you have my money AMD"

    bennyg 2 hours ago
    "So Navi sharpening has better game support, image quality, and performance on release than DLSS does after nearly a year in the wild. You could almost say of AMD's implementation... It just works?"

    glostermeteor 2 hours ago
    "Holy damn, such a simple solution kills nvidias DLSS which took soo many tensor cores and machine learning, bumping the price noticeably... Bravo AMD"

    Radeon Image Sharpening Tested, Navi's Secret Weapon For Combating Nvidia
    Submitted 7 hours ago by RandomCheeseCake
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbvptp/radeon_image_sharpening_tested_navis_secret/

    Aken_Bosch [score hidden] a minute ago
    "For those who will play on next gen Zen+Navi APU this thing is a godsend. You will be able to take 900p medium and upscale it to 1080p + sharpening."
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
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  7. abaddon4180

    abaddon4180 Notebook Virtuoso

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    I think that might have been true a couple of years ago, even maybe as recently as last year, but most OEMs seem to be embracing Ryzen recently. The Thinkpad E495/595 are pretty much the same as their Intel counterparts, as is the Envy x360. Sure, many OEMs still use slower and/or single-channel RAM in the default configurations but even with those things it is not like Ryzen performs significantly worse than comparable Intel products. It doesn't perform to its full potential but it isn't crippled to the point where the average user is going to feel like Ryzen is worse than Intel processors.
     
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    TimmyJoe put together a Navi + R9 390 cooler and it is an interesting result, with lower noise (Navi noise wasn't bad in his system, see video), much better cooling at 100% fans with a nice bump in Firestrike score, start at 09:25 to jump the the fun stuff:

    Visiontek Radeon RX 5700 2 Fan Cooler TESTED!
    Timmy Joe PC Tech
    Published on Jul 9, 2019
    I made this partner AIB Rx 5700 card, ok I know but I think this was an interesting experiment to see how even a mediocre partner card will perform!


    The other take away from his experiment is although better cooling does improve the scores, there is a boost cap that limits performance - he speculates the real AIB cards - some at least - will provide better cooling and overclocking headroom, but that's yet to be seen.

    So if you are planning on putting a water block on the AMD Navi's, maybe wait for someone else to do it and see if they figure out how to break through the OC limits, wait for AIB cards, or enjoy the cool running better performance of a waterblock or better air cooler on the AMD version anyway - who wants to wait, right? :)

    Here's another Navi Cooler replacement, it's in German, perhaps there will be an English version, for now Youtube Google Auto-translate to English works.

    He goes from just over 1800mhz @ 180 watts under load to 2040mhz @ 265w under load during brief testing. I would have liked to have seen at least a little comparison benchmarking, but still it's a nice 3 fan conversion. Maybe he will come back with a full comparison when he perfects the cooling.

    AMD RX 5700 XT | Custom cooler | 2 GHz + | quiet and cool? | Overclocking
    PC Games Hardware
    Published on Jul 10, 2019
    The DHE cooler of the new Navi graphics cards is relatively loud and does not offer very good cooling performance. We want to counteract this problem with an Arctic Accelero Extreme IV retrofit student. In addition to the radiator conversion, we show the temperatures and possible maximum cycle rates that can be achieved by the improved cooling performance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  9. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

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    yea prob would happen. for them to claim "the first to make thinnest 8 core or 16 core notebook" w/e marketing bs they throw at it. all i care is gaming laptop and workstation and a heatsink similar size to clevo P870TM would be able to cool ryzen's 8 core with almost silent fan.


    it'll be nice for a 4.1 to 4.2ghz 16 cores laptop at 1.25v for workstation purposes
     
  10. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOK's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    AMD: Ryzen 3000-Series CPUs Lack Manual Overclocking Headroom (tomshardware.com)

    "Robert Hallock, Senior Technical Marketing Manager at AMD, has explained on Reddit (and copied below) that AMD pretty much squeezes all the performance out of every single Ryzen 3000-series processor, leaving little headroom for manual overclocking"

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ers-welcome-too.810490/page-619#post-10931494
     
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