AMD's Ryzen CPUs (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris GPUs

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    6,195
    Messages:
    19,405
    Likes Received:
    24,154
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Keep telling yourself that the Intel patches won't affect your CB scores as you watch your IO and network CPU load increase XX%, and everything else you do that passes through those patches slows down everything around you - with those patches stealing CPU cycles away from everything during interactive and multi-task use.
    It's still too early to call if Intel is now on the other side of the benchmarking fence, firmly on the outside of the "winners circle". :)
     
  2. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    1,987
    Messages:
    5,424
    Likes Received:
    3,343
    Trophy Points:
    431
    if you understand CB then u'll know patches dont affect it. i dont need to tell myself, i tell you. besides who will patch those on consumer side anyway? i havent even updated my bios clevo to take 8 cores cause 1. it comes with the latest bios which ruins storage performance, 2. the heatsink mod is on hold and default heatsink can't really handle 8 cores anyway.

    @ajc9988 we need Ian to test the 1:1 and 2:1 memory latency comparison. it just wouldnt make sense to me that AMD doing the 2:1 for only the sake of overclocking ram but actually have degression because of it, it is just too stupid. i'd imagine some workload does benefit from 2:1 because of faster bandwidth even if infinity fabric is at a lower speed.

    also would love to see the efficiency as well as overclock, these are the 3 biggest thign im waiting for. ram/memory test, overclock ceiling on 7nm and power used by these chips. frequency ceiling will decide I buy AMD system this yr or wait for 7nm+, and power efficiency will dictate how many cores of CPU i'd buy, 16 24 or 32.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
    hmscott likes this.
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    6,195
    Messages:
    19,405
    Likes Received:
    24,154
    Trophy Points:
    931
    @ole!!! sometimes you have trouble reading what is written and only want to force it into how you want to read it.

    The point is that CB scores don't matter. Even if the CB score isn't materially affected by the patches - so far - the whole OS and IO subsystem during interactive and multi-tasking usage are greatly affected - affecting everything you do, no matter what it is.

    You aren't simply going to spend your day re-running CB over and over on an otherwise idle system to the exclusion of anything else - you are going to be doing lots of other things at the same time that will be affected, either directly or indirectly as being affected through the whole loss of OS performance.

    One of the things that isn't being done, because it's difficult to replicate, is to run whole system tests to see the interference with applications and even benchmarks.

    Running tests in isolation isn't normal behavior, and so results from such tests won't be indicative of real world usage. Running short duration small focused tests won't replicate normal rendering usage or results. Large disk IO, network IO - reading and writing data to and from disk / network and memory will be greatly affected and these slowdowns will negatively affect your end results.

    That's all I was trying to say. I thought I said it clearly several times, but I guess I needed to explain the entire context for you to pick up on what I was trying to express. Sorry to have been too brief for full a explanation.

    In addition, you will find that the new CPU rev's will have fixes that can't be turned off, that will use firmware changes that affect IO, and likely OS patches as well, and the hardware fixes are only for a limited subset of the known vulnerabilities and none of the unknown vulnerabilities.

    You'll need to use down rev CPU hardware to be able to avoid the fixes. If you are comparing a Ryzen 3 upgrade to a potential Intel upgrade, you have to take this into account.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  4. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    1,987
    Messages:
    5,424
    Likes Received:
    3,343
    Trophy Points:
    431
    i mean you write a full wall of text lol why not just put down the important key points.
     
    hmscott and tilleroftheearth like this.
  5. jclausius

    jclausius Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    3,165
    Messages:
    2,981
    Likes Received:
    1,921
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Not necessarily Ryzen, Vega, Epyc, etc., related, but this rumor may impact things down the road - https://wccftech.com/frank-azor-joins-amd/

    If true, let's just hope he doesn't bring start a BGA to the motherboard for AMD components like CPU, GPU or whatever.
     
    Vasudev, Papusan and hmscott like this.
  6. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

    Reputations:
    1,464
    Messages:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    7,828
    Trophy Points:
    681
    That already exists. AMD Epyc embedded 3000 series is a BGA selection. Most consoles are embedded solutions. Etc.

    Hell, mobile APUs are BGA. They won't lock down desktop socket or server. Swapping chips is too important there.

    Mobile, except for the few with desktop chips, how many AMD laptops offer other than BGA?
     
    Vasudev and hmscott like this.
  7. jclausius

    jclausius Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    3,165
    Messages:
    2,981
    Likes Received:
    1,921
    Trophy Points:
    181
    I should've been more specific in my comment about taking current LGA offerings and all of them going to BGA... It's really an inside joke to those following the XPS/ Alienware threads where this seems to be a common theme with the exception of one model, and that LGA model seems to be having its own problems.

    In regards to the AMD LGA on a laptop, I believe there is one model, but keep hoping (against ALL ODDS) that there will be more.

    theres-a-chance.jpg


     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    6,195
    Messages:
    19,405
    Likes Received:
    24,154
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Comments like that are why I end up ignoring you. I succinctly explain something and you pretend not to understand it. I further explain it and you misinterpret it. Then I try one last time by putting in the effort to fully explain something you are refusing to see, then you flippantly make some irrelevant remark while continuing to pretend like you don't see or understand.

    Sticking your head in the sand and mumbling nonsense won't make the Intel security patches performance hit go away.

    The Intel CPU security issues will continue to reduce performance even if a small tight benchmark dodges effect from the security patches, while the whole system is falling down around your ears, while your head is stuck firmly in the ground trying to ignore reality.

    Ignoring it won't make the security mitigation performance degradation of Intel CPU's go away, and neither will Intel moving the firmware patches into the CPU die, the OS and firmware patches are still enabled and taking performance away from the system.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    6,195
    Messages:
    19,405
    Likes Received:
    24,154
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Yeah, it's a joke that just won't go away. The irrelevance of LGA / PGA vs BGA is the biggest joke here on NBR. Thermal throttling issues have nothing to do with what socket or soldered attachment is used, it has to do with laptop physical size and attention to details of thermal management.

    Unlocking power limits and OC'ing beyond the physical capabilities of the system to expel thermal energy will throw out the window all of those careful designs once the demands outstrip the potential of the system to transfer and expel the heat generated.

    Putting all of that on the irrelevant physical attachment of the CPU / GPU to the PCB is ludicrous. :)
     
  10. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    1,987
    Messages:
    5,424
    Likes Received:
    3,343
    Trophy Points:
    431
    you probably didn't know this, i read most of what you wrote. my reply with a short quote from you is an example to show when most disagree with you or dont like you, they'll read the first part and ignore the rest, usually stopping at the first point they come to disagree with.

    the mitigation patch by turning off HT reduces performance by quite a bit but honestly only the business do that. I just dont see the need of doing it whos going to hack my computer to see all my pr0n collection? (hardware pr0n, yep).

    also some did tests already, patches barely did anything to gaming and most software like gaming are still coded towards intel's processor. gaming at best loses 1-2% in fps.
     
    Papusan likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page