AMD's Ryzen CPU's (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris GPU's

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    I disagree. Anyone that is only taking into account number of cores is NOT in IT and not making the buy decision at companies. And for home users, no one will buy an 18C CPU which overclocked to 4.4GHz over a 32-core chip which overclocked to 4.0-4.2GHz at the same price point. As you mentioned, you can go down to 16C on those chips when needed.

    As to IPC, Intel only has a 1-4% advantage. Even estimating an 86% scaling from the current generation for the 32 core chip in memory intensive workloads (not all workloads take this hit, even though they have to access mem off chip, it varies on effect), Intel's advantage would only move to 5% IPC advantage on estimates for clock for clock. I think that part of the estimate is being blown out of proportion.

    And 30% less performance at the same price point is a huge loss. (Around 6000 points on the 2990WX versus 4400 on the 7980XE is over 1/3rd, so over 33% performance increase at the same price point). In fact, 35-50% was Intel's offerings to bulldozer, IIRC.

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  2. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    Agreed, 18 unless the ipc is like 75%, will not match nor should it be considered a replacement. In this chart the AMD will still win but only be (again a guestimate) about a 30-35% better overall CPU, not including price. So compare the skews as total core count times performance per core at that skew.

    Edit, so if you use 33% then the 7980xe by comparison is worth 1205 but priced at 1,999 it is 65% more expensive;
    2990Base.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  3. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Doesn't really matter if AMD is 'only' 35% better than Intel at the moment.
    The core point here is that TR2 is A LOT cheaper than Intel's server options, it clocks higher than TR1 and is better optimized/tweaked.
    Also, A LOT of business and industry software is predominantly optimized for Intel in the first place. With greater adoption of TR1 and 2 into the server space and businesses, this will shift into AMD's favour which will further increase performance for AMD's hardware as they optimize for its code (as opposed to Intel's).

    Besides, businesses DO care about price/performance ratio.
    AMD currently offers much better value, performance, and it does that in a single socket to boot.
    Plus, no businesses will be overclocking their hardware to begin with... so, Intel loses even more ground in the business arena because their hardware will have to operate at out of the box settings - which further increases AMD's lead.

    Sorry, but Intel can't compete on AMD in this section at all.
    And even if Intel does release their 28 core part... how much more expensive is it going to be?
    I'm guessing that since they might try and pull an i9, maybe half the price of the original Xeon 28c part... but the low yields and high production costs might not allow this.
    AMD sells the TR2 for under $2000.
    The cheapest I could 'potentially' see the 28c Intel part would come out to $4000 to $5000 - and that's being generous (of course, I could be wrong)... but initially, we were told that Intel's 'new' 28c parts will probably be selling for close to $10 000... so so I guess we shall have to wait and see if Intel manages to even release that 28c part in the first place, and then how much they will price it.
     
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  4. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    I agree, AMD wins but not at the point you mention. Firstly is that TR is NOT a server part. It is an enterprise part for sure but not a Xeon, Epyc is for that. This though is another loosing battle for Intel.

    So while the new TR's are a huge win for AMD and they dominate Intel's offerings they are not a 75% better piece of hardware nor should we confuse them as such (where price is not a concern). I just think as a comparison scale we need to realize how far AMD is really ahead. This way once 7nm is here we can again realistically look how much further ahead they are then too.

    Remember too AMD right now is only going to be dancing on highly threaded workloads with the 2970wx and 2990wx. Till 7nm the other skews all still lag somewhat behind. AMD needs this dent though into the marketplace, worlds most overall powerful workload CPU.

    Now we were not told the 28 core consumer version would be $10,000, we were told they needs to convert the tech of their $10,000 Xeon to a consumer level chip and price. It has yet been seen if this low yield chip can meet that criteria. When Intel is backed to a corner they just love vaporware.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  5. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    TR may not be a server part, but nothing prevents it from being used as such or in businesses at large.
    EPYC tops out at 32 cores much like 2990x, but it also operates at much lower frequencies (base and boost). I don't see any real issues in adapting TR2 to work as a server part.

    People who focus on single-threaded performance on those high core CPU's are really missing the point of those parts in the first place... and besides, its hardly a slouch (considering the node restrictions AMD has to work with).
    At worst it will be comparable to other Ryzen+ products with much lower core counts in single threaded performance... but it will end up being far superior in multitasking, content creation, etc. (areas for which 2970wx and 2990wx were originally designed for - granted, gaming is part of the equation, but it's not a sole point.
    Last time I checked, most people don't use their hardware for gaming only.

    As for Intels' 28c part and price.... well, have a look at this:
    https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/intels-28-core-5ghz-processor-could-cost-dollar10000

    Granted, they were saying this for Intel's overclocking stunt which is not representative of the actual product... but still, the original Xeon Platinum 8176 costs $8719.
    Do you really think that with low yields they will be able to drop the price by 50%? That's assuming they can get their 28c parts for consumers out into the market in the first place.
    I personally doubt it... and still, would eve die-hard fans of Intel get that part at such a price?
    If yes, I would imagine the numbers would be very few. The overall cost of the system would be several times that of an TR2 build... most of the cost would be in the CPU, not including anything else.
     
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  6. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    You may not see a difference but there is, like it or not. TR2 is not a server part, now for use as a home server fine but in business if you are IT you purchase real server parts for servers. Workstations TR2's are fine for.

    That $10,000 cost is all speculation and based on the server part cost. The original 18 code Xeon was way more than $2,000 too. Again with low yields and power and cooling this is all vaporware anyway. In the end we shall see.

    As I said we need 7nm Epyc to really start challenging Intel on the server side. 14nm started to see some inroads but the new process will open things up substantially. This is why they are worried. AMD is attacking them from everywhere, mobile being that last place for AMD to come in and take dominance.
     
  7. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Prophet

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    That's totally wrong unless you use Intel SDK and IDEs for programing. On Linux(GCC) can use optimisations for any CPU architecture be it ARM, AMD,Intel,PowerPC etc.. On Windows, if you use Visual Studio by default Microsoft uses general code optimisation that works on ARM,Intel and AMD chips.
    Unless you are developing code for specific CPU/hardware only then optimisation for that HW sounds fine, otherwise its best to stick with general code/binary optimisations provided by any compilers.
     
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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  9. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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  10. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    Build 2990wx;
     
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