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AMD's Ryzen CPU's (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris GPU's

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    I was reading through to catch up but had to address this directly. The leaked bench shows 15% while only having 200MHz increase. That means the extra performance came from other changes. Period. Stop being so ignorant when you have been corrected already!
     
  2. Deks

    Deks Notebook Virtuoso

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    I was going off the technical spec sheets provided for the manuf. process.
    And I also mentioned that the 'leaks' we got are just that... leaks that could be engineering samples running on smaller bump ups.
    Did AMD confirm only 200 MhZ increase for the final product?
    Did AMD also say anything about an IPC increase for refreshes or other changes? Other changes like what specifically? Better implementation of Infinity Fabric, bigger caches, what?
    What kind of changes did AMD actually put into the refresh?
    And is that SiSandra benchmark even the real deal?

    I'm being ignorant for asking questions because the information doesn't exactly mesh well?
    We got 1 leak... nothing that's been substantiated by AMD thus far (correct me if I'm wrong though), and which could be an indication of an engineering sample (or it might not).
     
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  3. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    I detailed it damn near a month ago. They did tweaks to lower memory latency, which can indirectly boost IPC, but I don't consider that an IPC boost, per se. They also worked on memory speed and capacity, but don't know the effect. I said on January 19th "AMD said they made changes to SenseMI, to the IMC and memory latency, die shrink, power efficiency, and clockspeed and overclocking. We have seen 15% on early silicon, which 6% is only attributed to the speed bump, with the other 9% to all other changes to the CPU, which would include IPC." This was responding to your post responding to my showing the sisoft performance. So, unless we are discussing another leak I do not know about, the statement stands and you need to listen when others speak.

    So, just looking at raw data, that 200MHz gave 15% and more is due to tweaks than the speed boost, which part is the throttle mechanism changes to hit higher for longer if using less than full MHz on all cores, some is the memory tweaks which are indirect IPC improvements, and the die shrink, clock speed, and OC is process changes. Power efficiency comes from both process used/die shrink and from the senseMI changes.

    So we do not need to know whether engineering sample or not, because if it is an ES, then the ffinal will likely be better. Also, 200 seems right for an "official" clock change, especially without being an X series. Look at Intel, on their CPUs for official clocks, they have small increases like that on official speeds also. It means nothing on OC, like I told you two and a half weeks ago. As to IPC, you said there were likely none. It is too early to say, but if no changes occurred, you couldn't get 15% increase over the prior gen on a 200MHz boost in speed which is only a 6% increase in speed. It is mathematically impossible.

    Now, whether the bench is real is up for debate. We'll find out. But don't wait 2.5 weeks then try saying the same stuff that was already addressed. Makes you look like a troll (not saying you are, saying it is unbecoming behavior).
     
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  4. Deks

    Deks Notebook Virtuoso

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    I might have missed your reply before... or simply forgotten about it.
    6% clock bump aside, could AMD have realistically done enough changes to Ryzen refresh to get extra 9% without touching the clocks beyond a minor bump?
    Though they mentioned that Ryzen 1 was their 'worst case scenario'.
    And, you do realize you are basing those numbers on a sandra bechmark that may or may not be real in the first place and makes it as speculative as anything else (given that we received 0 formal confirmation from AMD).

    Do we have any official information from AMD itself on Ryzen+ new stock and boost clocks though?
     
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  5. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    Now this is the conversation I can engage in! So, memory latency on Ryzen versus the mainstream chips still using ring bus was easily 2.5x what Intel's was if you had to jump CCX. Compared to the mesh on Skylake-X, the latency was negligible, literally like 25%. So, to fix the ram latency, we could see a good boost (based on 3200MHz ram). Now, that could account for a couple percent (look at the speed boost going from 2400 to 3200 on the platform, which was not just ram speed, but also faster IF and lowering latency by 25 percent).

    So, that is part of the answer, but not all of it, unless they really did a number on lowering that latency. Now, it is on a new process, which requires some tweaks. Those tweaks could account for another couple percent, unless they really tried to improve the IPC. So, assuming they didn't, we would only get incidental boosts in IPC, which is possible. Added with the latency, that could account to a 5-7% boost without it being unreasonable. How they got 9%, I don't know.

    But, remember, this could be a higher boost only at certain workloads, so the 15% only applying to the type of workloads shown in this sisoft leak, which isn't showing even the full plethora of benches available on sisoft. So, it could be a high watermark, so to speak. Or someone could have found a way to spoof it. Or any number of things.

    Either way, there isn't enough here to fully speculate, yet.

    I haven't seen official anything yet, but we are two months from launch now. So they are finalizing some things and MBs should be getting finalized soon or in the process.

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
     
  6. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Moderator

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    You have to remember that they are basing on stock speeds. This means that improvements to the turbo boost could be the major part of the difference. If this is the case then the turbo boost will mean little to nothing for those overclocking. Also if this is the case then just a 200 MHz boost to base will not be enough for me.

    On the other note for those that do not overclock the overall boost to bring the CPU's closer to performance of stock Intel offerings is very welcome.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
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  7. Raiderman

    Raiderman Notebook Evangelist

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    If it's 200mhz for base and boost for instance, my 1700x/2700x would be 3.6ghz, and 4ghz. I would want a bit more than 200mhz on the overclock to be interested. More like 500 to 600 over the boost clock for me to get excited. If the 2700x or 2800x can hit 4.5ish than I will throw down for one.

    Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
     
  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    AMD Ryzen 3 2200G - Ryzen 5 2400G APU Preview


    AMD Ryzen 3 2200G and Ryzen 5 2400G APU Preview (3 pages)
    Stock Cooler and Xbox One Comparison
    Published: 8th February 2018 | Source: AMD | Price: | Author: Mark Campbell
    https://overclock3d.net/reviews/cpu_mainboard/amd_ryzen_3_2200g_and_ryzen_5_2400g_apu_preview/1

    "AMD's Ryzen 3 2200G and Ryzen 5 2400G fills me with a lot of excitement, as while they are part of the "low-end" of AMD's Ryzen CPU lineup they offer a compelling option for basic gaming and deliver a boatload of interesting design changes.

    What excites me most is the 2400G, as its CPU and GPU component both offer what we would describe as specification advantages over the Xbox One S, making the chip look like a great option for budget gaming given its literal console-grade specifications.

    The products boost in clock speeds, and use of Precision Boost 2 also showcases a clear advantage over AMD's older Zen processors, giving us a glimpse of exactly what to expect from AMD's upcoming Zen+ series of processors. AMD's boost in supported memory clock speeds is an incredibly encouraging thing to see, especially if the company plans to expand on this further with Zen+, which will be based on a newer 12nm production process from Globalfoundries.

    Sadly, we cannot get into more in-depth detail regarding the performance of this product, as that will have to wait for the official release of these CPUs on February 12th."
    Giggyolly
    I thought these APUs were too good to be true TBH, but I can see there are now some drawbacks with the new quad core design.
    That being said, they seem minimal, and look to offer some really great low-end value parts.
    I occasionally do office PCs for friends and family, and these could replace the i3s I'd usually opt for!

    AlienALX
    Expectation. People have very high ones, then you find yourself let down all of the time. The trick is to have none, and see the product for what it is. IE - a cheap, dirty little APU that can actually game. Meaning you can have a tiny rig that doesn't bust your bank account and run games on low settings.

    This idea was enormously popular with the original AMD APUs. Even though the on die GPU was crap (6670 or something) it enabled people to just stick one in and game without the added expense of a GPU.

    And yes, the GPU area on this should piddle on Intel's best tbh.

    Over the coming months I fancy building a Sega AM3 only box. Running Supermodel. This would be absolutely ideal for me [​IMG]

    RobM
    Speaking from experience as having gamed AAA titles on an APU, ie my last setup was an A10 and I was able to play with reasonable setting @ 1080p without any real problems except when things got really busy on screen such as late game HOI or Arma3 but for the most things were pretty fine.
    This new generation I bet will be far superior and akin to an ryzen 3 with a 750ti or better
    AMD RAVEN RIDGE Ryzen 5 And Ryzen 3 With Vega Graphics UNBOXING

    AMD Raven Ridge Unboxing, R5 2400G & R3 2200G Ready for Benchmarking!

    AMD Raven Ridge UNBOXING Reviewer's Kit

    AMD Raven Ridge Ryzen + Vega Unboxing the presskit

    AMD Ryzen APU with Radeon Vega unboxing and install

    The AMD Ryzen 5 2400G with Radeon RX Vega 11 Graphics Up Close!

    World's First Ryzen APU Unboxing!
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Probably the 7th AMD Ryzen APU Unboxing on YouTube
     
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  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    AMD Motherboards Ryzen 2000 APU Ready
    https://www.asus.com/microsite/mb/AMD-Ryzen-2000-APU-ready/
    Asus Ryzen 2000 APU support list.JPG
    ASUS Announces Support for AMD Ryzen Desktop Processors with Radeon Vega
    By btarunr Friday, February 9th 2018 02:00
    https://www.techpowerup.com/241386/...amd-ryzen-desktop-processors-with-radeon-vega

    "ASUS today announced that its complete lineup of AM4-socket-based motherboards now offer support for the first Zen architecture-based AMD Ryzen desktop processors with Radeon Vega graphics Accelerated Processing Units (APUs), via a BIOS update that's available immediately. These all-new AMD Ryzen 2000 Series APUs combine up to four Zen-based CPU cores with integrated Radeon Vega graphics. When used in combination with ASUS AMD AM4 Series motherboards, AMD Ryzen 2000 Series APUs offer great-value performance and deliver best-in-class gaming and graphics experiences.

    Existing owners of ASUS AM4-socket motherboards can update their systems quickly and easily with the intuitive ASUS USB BIOS Flashback or ASUS EZ Flash 3 tools. In addition, an updated graphics driver - available from the ASUS support website - pushes the integrated AMD Radeon graphics to new performance heights for best-ever visual and gaming experiences with AMD Ryzen 2000 Series APUs.
    [​IMG]
    Quick-and-easy BIOS update delivers instant compatibility with AMD Ryzen 2000 Series APUs
    Updating an ASUS AM4-socket-based motherboard for compatibility with the latest AMD Ryzen 2000 Series APUs takes just moments, via one of two simple methods.

    With the ASUS-exclusive USB BIOS Flashback feature built in to many ASUS motherboards, users only need to download the latest UEFI BIOS to a USB flash drive, connect the motherboard's power supply, insert a FAT32-formatted USB drive, and then press the motherboard's USB BIOS Flashback or Reset button. No AM4 processor or memory modules need to be in place, and the update will complete in a few moments.

    Alternatively, users may update via the EZ Flash 3 utility that's integrated with the ASUS UEFI BIOS. This tool allows the update to be applied via an inserted USB drive or downloaded directly from the internet.

    Users are also advised to update to the newest Radeon Vega drivers (V23.20.817.0 or later) to enjoy the best-possible graphics performance. These drivers are available for download from the ASUS microsite, at this page.

    This ASUS BIOS update is available immediately worldwide. Please contact your local ASUS representative for further information."
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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