AMD's Ryzen CPU's (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris GPU's

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    Now, I won't contradict all of what you said, including your personal experience with the system. But, you cannot blame the system for him not doing a fresh install. Sometimes you even have to do that on Intel systems, and it is and was a known issue, so that is on him. Same with driver compatibility, as driver programming is controlled by Nvidia, not AMD, thereby meaning you are blaming AMD for actions of its competitor putting out a ****ty driver. That makes no sense whatever in this context!!! Also, the least favorite grandkid is a bit harsh, but who am I to judge.

    With that said, he is going to test out the 8700K soon, which, with his current productivity suite from Adobe, will perform better almost assuredly (or at least on everything except premiere at bare minimum). But we've already discussed Adobe not optimizing for multi-thread and core speed being king with its software, don't need to rehash that. So, not disagreeing with the gist of your statement, just certain aspects.

    Also, anyone complaining about the BIOS onslaught for Ryzen has forgotten the same onslaught with X99, X299, and other Intel chipsets. So, that part I give a pass. Where I don't is AMD still has locked features that they don't talk about and have not activated on both the CPU and GPU Vega products. I understand needing to work out bugs, but we are over 6 months on Ryzen and 4-5 months on VEGA. Now, for the TR Bios, mine just worked, and has worked, since day one. If you got an Asus, so many errors. But that comes down to MB manufacturer. Which reminded me of his issue with the external HDD caddy. Is it really Ryzen at issue, or the MB. I really wish he had tested that with another board to be sure (including another board from another manufacturer).

    Overall, it is, but hold your horses on singing praises for 12nm. Very little is known about the process other than some potential energy inefficiencies. We don't know if that will translate to a speed boost or not. You will get minor tweaks and that can improve IPC slightly, as well as other aspects of performance. So taking a breath and waiting for something concrete is what I'd recommend. Also, there is a good chance the 7nm Navi is being produced at TSMC, so that is where the more excitement should be had, as well as waiting for word on the new addition of a competitor packaging the HBM2/Die on chip.

    You are both correct and not. Overclockers help to drive demand, by showing superiority in extreme use cases, or now showing what extra performance could be had. Why do you think the internet was PISSED at Intel's response to the fluctuating voltage spikes when Intel's response was "Just don't overclock"? (@Papusan knows what I'm talking about).

    But, aside from that, Ryzen would have to match Intel's overclocked speeds on their stock or minor OC for your statement to fully be true (back to the argument of not leaving performance on the table like Intel does just so people can have "the feels"). But, right now, it isn't just about the extra speed, as it is the better performer in an absolute sense. So not a good line of argument.

    Smaller doesn't always mean more speed. Intel proved that, to a degree. Especially with this being a half node. In fact, 10nm Intel is supposed to have weaker transistor performance than 14nm++. That is why I don't talk about cannonlake. It is slowly being relegated to low power devices and may be the new Broadwell **** stain. So we cannot just pump it up, unduly, when we have no basis for it yet. At least the specs on the 7nm process say that it is targeting 5GHz for HPC, meaning server components, which would suggest that the mainstream and HEDT may reach 5GHz+. That is something to base it on. The 12nm refresh is a slightly smaller half node which has no information on it that I have seen (and I just checked the GloFo page, only the general press release, not much on our purpose of speculation). So let's not build up this refresh, thereby making the hype greater than delivery. That is one of the main reason AMD gets so much slack on certain product releases, even when they don't build them up, like recently.
     
  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    As he described the issues I thought, did you do a fresh OS install? And, he finally answered that, no he didn't, and when he did that the problems stopped.

    We already knew there were teething problems upon release, as there are with other CPU and platform releases, I've had similar issues with Intel CPU releases over the years as well.

    IDK if the z370 / z270 / z170 continuity should be considered a plus or a really aggravating minus, I guess the stability is nice, but the poor support for same socket CPU's across the line sucks. That makes it a definite no go for me as a recommendation.

    The BIOS updates and improvements keep coming from AMD, and solid stability was there for fresh installs for everyone, noone else was complaining of issues like this, except for getting high RAM speed, but it's the same for Intel.

    What I take away from the video and their long term experience is, pay attention to the basics, which I see everyone reminding everyone else here, I don't think it's a problem with Ryzen, it's a problem with the reviewers own build management.
     
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  3. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $$ on FILTH

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  4. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    Wait a minute. They are blaming AMD compatibility issues on changes made by another program. Are they daft? Now, there may be a workaround on AMD's end, but it literally could have been the changes to the program itself that is the entire issue. Considering it worked with those cards before the update, why are they not placing blame on the **** coding? It literally is a hit piece.
     
  5. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $$ on FILTH

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    It still work with Nvidia. Up to AMD to push out updated driver with a fix as Oculus no longer supports the DK2. I expect both Nvidia and AMD have a close dialogue with Oculus. This shoudn't come like a bomb on AMD.
     
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  6. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    First, it doesn't matter if it works with Nvidia or not in this case. If the programmer, in designing it, only considered and debugged for Nvidia drivers, without testing the effect on AMD, YOU GET THE SAME EXACT OUTCOME! That doesn't make it a driver issue, that makes it **** programming!

    Second, just because AMD can work around the **** programmer's programming and lack of debugging, you cannot blame them for the sudden incompatibility. You don't even know, and seem to assume, Nvidia changed their driver beforehand and AMD did not. Without more information, that is pure speculation.

    So, taken together, other than AMD supposedly knowing they were going to **** the code up when dropping support, where is this AMD's fault again?
     
    Deks likes this.
  7. yrekabakery

    yrekabakery Notebook Deity

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    Honestly, I wouldn't put it past AMD's driver team. History has shown them to have a lack of concern for backwards compatibility. Just ask Unwinder (RivaTuner/Afterburner/RTSS creator) how many times AMD driver updates have broken compatibility with his program. ;)
     
  8. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $$ on FILTH

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    This doesn't help the AMD owners. Up to AMD to fix this now. Or forget it. We have to see what will come.
     
  9. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    The same driver worked before the update, then didn't after. If it was a new driver that came out from AMD, and installing that driver showed dropped support, I'd agree. Here, same driver, stops working after update. That sounds like software changes created the specific bug, not drivers.

    I do agree, unless it isn't in the driver that the problem is found. Some things in code cannot simply be fixed by making changes in the driver. Think of all the borked games out there.

    That is why I take issue with this article. It assigns blame without proof of blame.
     
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  10. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $$ on FILTH

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    None know exactly who you should blame. AMD owners is Screwed if Oculus don't lift a finger for this... Then it's up to AMD to see what they can do. If both don't lift a finger... You then know the final outcome. Nvidia will win on this. The question is... Will AMD let them?
     
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