AMD's Ryzen CPU's (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris GPU's

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by Rage Set, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    3,683
    Messages:
    13,723
    Likes Received:
    15,933
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Gamers Nexus also made the mistake of leaving MCE on, and followed up with this video explaining the mistake and why it might be "accidentally" left enabled (Auto = ON!!) by a motherboard vendor :)

    Explaining Coffee Lake Turbo Boost Variance & Multi-Core Enhancement


    Explaining How Coffee Lake Turbo Works (8700K, 8600K)
    By Steve Burke Published October 06, 2017 at 3:05 pm
    https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3077-explaining-coffee-lake-turbo-8700k-8600k
     
    ajc9988 and tilleroftheearth like this.
  2. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

    Reputations:
    4,345
    Messages:
    11,878
    Likes Received:
    1,901
    Trophy Points:
    631
    From the link in the quoted reply:
    Agreed 100%.

    Effectively; this is why I don't overclock any more either (stable - initially - or not). :)

     
    hmscott likes this.
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    3,683
    Messages:
    13,723
    Likes Received:
    15,933
    Trophy Points:
    931
    It was also mentioned that a couple of applications, Adobe video processing jobs and Blender in particular weren't stable on the 4x 4.7ghz as given by the "default" MCE option in the motherboard BIOS, additional tuning was required to get stable operation.

    It's not a good idea to put any OC into the BIOS as a default given the variance of CPU's and the vagaries of application demands. Certainly not a 4x 400mhz OC without going through the process the BIOS auto tuning offers - that's the confusing part.

    If Asus were truly trying to offer a benefit to owners by OC'ing as a default, then they would have initiated their long time available optional performance auto-tuning for higher stable performance, instead of sneaking in the OC through defaulting MCE Enabled - Auto is as good as Enabled.

    It makes me wonder if some engineer did some benchmarking, found the Ryzen 7 CPU's were just beating the 8700k, and decided to find out how much fudge was required to turn the tables and make the 8700k benchmark just past the Ryzen 7 CPU's. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  4. Papusan

    Papusan BGABOOKS = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

    Reputations:
    6,742
    Messages:
    15,187
    Likes Received:
    20,339
    Trophy Points:
    931
    New Review of AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X Planet 3DNow! (de)

    "Overclocking finally gave us a little surprise for us. Lower values than set 0.9875 volts did not start our system. And this voltage already suffices for 3.4 GHz, so that an underclocking of our 1950X makes no sense for efficiency reasons. But also when overclocking we had to realize that there is no real sweetspot. Any increase in the clock rate requires more extra voltage than the previous clock step. The necessary additional voltages are still relatively small up to 3.6 GHz, but the curve increases significantly more steeply. However, compared to the standard power consumption, a value of about 3,750 MHz could be considered a sweetspot. For about this clock rate would consume as much as without OC with activated turbo mode"
     
    tilleroftheearth and hmscott like this.
  5. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

    Reputations:
    4,345
    Messages:
    11,878
    Likes Received:
    1,901
    Trophy Points:
    631
    Agree with all but your last paragraph. :)

    If otherwise competent over clockers missed this - the Asus engineers could too. ;)

     
  6. Deks

    Deks Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    882
    Messages:
    3,642
    Likes Received:
    775
    Trophy Points:
    181
    On a side-note.
    My Asus ROG GL702ZC will be arriving on Monday.
    Ryzen 1700, RX 580 (4GB DDR5), 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD.
    Will be interesting to play around with the machine when I get it and see if I can undervolt the RX 580 from the stock baseline and achieve better thermals.
    I will also try to see if I can push the 1700 lower in terms of voltages too (though Ryzen is already pretty efficient as is - but the manuf. process and default voltages aren't that good for GPU's).

    As for 8700K and an Asus engineer intentionally overclocking the CPU to beat Ryzen... well, it's a possibility, but I think it's also likely to be a simple mistake.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but only that one Asus Motherboard type was affected, and apparently, when Jay addressed this issue with Asus, they insisted that the setting was shipped as 'off' (indicating it could be a simple mistake or are lying intentionally to cover themselves - again, possible, but I doubt they would be doing this intentionally and risk overheating and throttling).
    Asus might be releasing a patch in that case to address the setting and make sure its switched off... or update the BIOS settings on unreleased mobo's to turn it off.

    Either way, most people getting the CPU in question on that motherboard (if they get the overclocked setting turned on) might end up frying their CPU's or experience thermal issues as a result because they are being run on too high voltages and of course produce much more heat than intended.

    Personally, I would try to undervolt and overclock the CPU instead... or just undervolt it. It already runs fast enough and probably won't be an issue even on stock.
     
    Robbo99999 likes this.
  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    3,683
    Messages:
    13,723
    Likes Received:
    15,933
    Trophy Points:
    931
    "It makes me wonder if some engineer did some benchmarking, found the Ryzen 7 CPU's were just beating the 8700k, and decided to find out how much fudge was required to turn the tables and make the 8700k benchmark just past the Ryzen 7 CPU's. :D"

    Maybe it wasn't the 8700k, but at some point many years ago, some bright engineer dreamt up getting Asus a free motherboard performance boost to outperform the competition... at least until they copied the idea.

    It may just be that everyone (4? reviewers) "forgot" that Asus defaults MCE to "Auto=Enable", in every(?) motherboard BIOS release??

    The first time I noticed it was with my early Rampage motherboards.

    A couple of examples:

    2012 - Multicore Enhancement: The Debate about Free MHz
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/6214/multicore-enhancement-the-debate-about-free-mhz

    2016 - asus multicore enhancement
    https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?83251-asus-multicore-enhancement
     
  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    3,683
    Messages:
    13,723
    Likes Received:
    15,933
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Wow, how exciting!! :)

    Where did you end up ordering from? Good price? A little more or less than you expected / MSRP?

    Very much looking forward to seeing how it runs for you, overclocking, temps, fun factor :)
    IDK how Asus is going to handle it since MCE has "always" been there, and we know to turn it off when testing stock results, and when you OC it's disabled, it's only for a "stock boost".

    The other vendors have something like it too, so you need to check any and every motherboard BIOS settings carefully before publishing benchmark results at stock.

    See my other reply to @tilleroftheearth
    Gigabyte motherboards seem to get bit by this frequently, and it's likely related to the "stock boost" mentality, checking all the BIOS settings is something I always do, boring as it might be until you learn to enjoy it, as there are often little settings "gotchas".
    Yup, it's funny to remember it was long ago that the "method" was to use the highest recommended voltage of Intel for the CPU / motherboard vendor, and overclock from there.

    It took a while for a few of us to independently discover "undervolting", simply known back then as "backing off from the maximum voltage".

    I can't believe the motherboard vendors still don't automate all of this tuning as every CPU is different, and they can't expect the owner to do this time consuming task. Some of us enjoy it, but most just want it to work at peak performance so they can get "work" / "play" done. :)
     
  9. Papusan

    Papusan BGABOOKS = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

    Reputations:
    6,742
    Messages:
    15,187
    Likes Received:
    20,339
    Trophy Points:
    931
    We will see a lot fun. From your own post:D
     
    hmscott and Robbo99999 like this.
  10. Robbo99999

    Robbo99999 Notebook Prophet

    Reputations:
    2,915
    Messages:
    4,961
    Likes Received:
    3,131
    Trophy Points:
    331
    Will be interesting to hear how you get on with that RX 580, I've seen very little about such laptops, so will be good to hear about it from you.
     
    hmscott likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page