All you need to know about quality of MSI hardware

Discussion in 'Desktop Hardware' started by Felix_Argyle, Aug 23, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Felix_Argyle

    Felix_Argyle Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    86
    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    56


    This company is so cheap that they use undersized thermal pads on their video card.
     
  2. heretofore

    heretofore Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    10
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    41
  3. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    930
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    878
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Higher wattage cards in higher-end SKUs than the GTX 1660 Ti Phoenix have also been shipped with bare VRMs. The Super Alloy Power II design is more efficient than reference design, thus producing less waste heat. Official numbers are up to 35°C lower temperature and 2.5X extended lifespan. Redundancy aside, putting a thermal pad over the VRMs of the Phoenix would, from the looks of it, impede exhaust airflow. What I'm saying is that I doubt Asus was cheap or careless in their omission.
     
    4W4K3 likes this.
  4. heretofore

    heretofore Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    10
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    41
    https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/graphics/asus-geforce-gtx-1660-ti-phoenix-oc-review/12/

    Unfortunately, the cooler really is rather poor. A delta T of 60°C is not a good result for a GTX 1660 Ti, with Palit and Zotac managing 46°C and 50°C respectively with similarly sized cards. The card also reports that its boost speed is being thermally limited (and power-limited), which is not a good sign. Asus’ card is also on the loud side compared to the others.

    In OC Mode, the card boosts to 1,830MHz (still lower than the Palit stock card) and is still reported as thermally limited. This’ll get you 1-2 percent more performance going by 3DMark Time Spy, but the fan gets noticeably more noisy in its attempts to cope, and the temperature goes up by 3°C too


    Seems the VRM's are over-heating and thermally limiting the overclock.

    For comparison, look at the Palit GTX 1660 Ti
    https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/palit_geforce_gtx_1660_ti_stormx_review,5.html
     
    Convel likes this.
  5. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    930
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    878
    Trophy Points:
    106
    I'm a bit confused by one of bit-tech's statements:
    The memory dies appear to be making contact with the heatsink to me.
    [​IMG]

    Anyhow, I don't wish to be quarrelsome, and I realise that the Phoenix is a card which re-uses a cooler from Asus' parts bin, adding an SKU to their range at a minimal development cost for a diversified portfolio. As reviews show, a GTX 1660 Ti is powerful enough to warrant a larger heatsink than what is provided by the Phoenix, and there are better alternatives out there. My conjecture was directed at the VRM cooling only. I remain doubtful the card would benefit from a thermal pad running across the VRMs, if the rest of the cooler remained unchanged.

    Because the Phoenix isn't set up to be an OC champ, having only limited potential to handle additional heat coming from the GPU die, I think there are limiting factors being reached too soon for the VRMs to reach an alarming temperature and impact performance. The boost speed being power-limited doesn't necessarily stem from overheating VRMs, and since there's a thermal limit as well, adding a slight restriction to the exhaust airflow in the form of a thermal pad seems detrimental rather than beneficiary. I could of course be wrong and it would be interesting to see a thermal image of the PCB under load.
     
  6. heretofore

    heretofore Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    10
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Did you watch the MSI video? It seems that cooler is also re-used.

    youtu.be/morJq0HJoCc?t=739

    Does this look like an overheating processor to you?
    https://bit-tech.net/reviews/tech/graphics/asus-geforce-gtx-1660-ti-phoenix-oc-review/10/
    If the graphics processor is not causing thermal throttling, then what is? The vram is fully covered by thermal pads and makes contact with the heatsink.

    I used to own an Asus GTX 750 Ti and it had a crappy cooler too. No thermal pads on both the vram and vrm's.
    It upsets me that you are so eager to defend Asus. Be honest. What is your motive here?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019
  7. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    930
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    878
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Yes, I did. No excuse not to use full-size thermal pads, and the cooler design does indeed look familiar.
    Those two slides show a power draw of 265W and a temperature of 63°C while playing BF4. Unless I'm missing something, those values are healthy for a 1660 Ti. I find them indicative of neither thermal nor power throttling.

    If I'm not mistaken, the throttling you referred to earlier was to the boost clock. Power limit, voltage, vBIOS, binning, and temperatures still below junction are alternative culprits. Can't rule out the VRMs overheating either, but it's not the only possible explanation and, in my opinion, it's not the most likely one.
    I still have an old Asus 290X DCII OC around somewhere, and I can't say I regret that purschase as it was notably quieter than reference, had a nice backplate, and barely commanded a premium over reference. Just as you discovered on your 750 Ti, however, there were no thermal pads on the VRMs or memory modules. I'm not sure if memory overclocking was bad because of low quality VRAM or lack of cooling, but it would have been nice if they hadn't skimped on pads. I find it less acceptable to not properly cool all hotspots of a card if it has a beefy cooler and is advertised as overclocking-friendly.
    I'm not eager to defend Asus, and I don't have any other motive than a desire to voice my opinion. I'm simply not convinced a VRM thermal pad would have been an improvement to the Phoenix, given how it would block off a small amount airflow and we don't know what temperature the VRMs are reaching without it. I'm perfectly happy to tear that card apart in other respects, such as the small heatsink, inconvenient 8-pin power connector location, and its less than generous 110% power limit. I currently use a card from EVGA, and have had cards from XFX, MSI, and Sapphire as well. I'm fairly brand agnostic.
     
  8. heretofore

    heretofore Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    10
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    41
    The Asus Phoenix GTX 1660 Ti has no heatpipes and no direct sinked cooling for the VRM's.
    We should be condemning Asus for inadequate cooling, not spending time arguing that thermal pads on the vrm's won't help,
    and that there is no proof that the vrm's are thermally throttling.

    youtu.be/WmRfZez2oRk?t=1131
     
  9. yosv211

    yosv211 Notebook Consultant

    Reputations:
    5
    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Its only a few pennies her and there but over many many GPUs it really adds up to millions saved.
     
  10. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    930
    Messages:
    718
    Likes Received:
    878
    Trophy Points:
    106
    I agree. A redesigned cooler which also provides VRM-cooling would have been much better. My point was that the current design doesn't accommodate a simple thermal pad fix to add proper VRM-cooling, unlike the MSI 5700 XT situation, where an appropriately sized heat plate is already in place. The Asus cooler is no doubt worse than the MSI, and even though it at least sticks to MSRP pricing, they lowered the bar too much. The EVGA 1660 Ti XC Black sets a different standard for MSRP. Way better cooler, as long as you're not case restricted to dual-slot.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page