All about 5G Technologies

Discussion in 'Smartphones and Tablets' started by The Strategist, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    5G Rural Rollout
    RFD-TV
    Published on Apr 15, 2019
    Washington DC April 15th - The trump administration rolls out a new plan to upgrade american communication to 5g, and dedicate billions to rural broadband access. RFD-TV’s Sarah Mock has the story. While the white house supports the nationwide rollout of an advanced 5g network, they say rural can’t be left behind.
    “We are also focused on rural communities that do not have access to broadband at all. Farmers just haven’t been treated properly, and now we’re making it a priority, that’s the area we want to go to first. We’re also working with federal agencies to get networks built in rural America faster, and at much, much lower cost.”

    The rural digital opportunity fund, proposed by the FCC, would dedicate $20.4 billion over ten years to expanding high speed internet access to undeserved and un-served communities.

    “This money will extend high speed broadband to up to 4 million homes and small businesses, in rural America. These next generation networks will bring greater opportunity to America’s heartland, and pave the way for 5G technologies.”

    The money for this plan, he says, will come from the universal service fund and provide $2 billion a year to rural carriers to support the build out of broadband networks. Streamlining regulation is another priority, trump says, his administration plans to shorten the permitting period and cap local fees on 5g and broadband builds. producers present at the event expressed their support.

    “The theme that you struck today of deregulation and broadening it out, and letting American business, letting America’s farmers fix the problems of this country really rings heart with us. That’s what we try to do and that’s what we’ll bring forward to build this nation.”

    Though the proposal must still go through notice and public comment periods, Pai is hopeful to begin reverse auctions to distribute the money later this year. For RFD-TV, I’m Sarah Mock in Washington.

    The president also announced a third 5g spectrum auction set for late this year, a process that’s drawn attention from those concerned that china could be surging ahead of the us in 5g adoption, which the administration says is a security and competitive concern. Which promises to be up to 100 times faster than the current 4g network. Steve Censky Was On Hand For The Announcement

    Trump
    Pai
    Marty Smith, NCBA President-elect

    Sarah Mock
    Washington Correspondent
    @sarah_k_mock


    Trump puts kibosh on nationalized 5G network rumors
    But the White House and FCC promise more spectrum for the wireless industry and a $20 billion fund for rural broadband to ensure US dominance in 5G
    MARGUERITE REARDON, CARRIE MIHALCIK
    APRIL 12, 2019 2:46 PM PDT
    https://www.cnet.com/news/white-hou...and-20b-fund-for-rural-broadband-says-report/
     
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  2. The Strategist

    The Strategist Living with Hope

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    Why You Shouldn't Get Excited About 5G | Untangled
     
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Note @ 12:45, high power 4G = 300w , high power 5G = 1000w !

    To make up for the high drop off in power over distance the 5G cells will need 3x+ more power in the same geography - at much higher frequencies, with much higher densities of cell's required, all adding up to a much higher RF exposure for people, plants, and animals.

    5G Whizz - BBC Click

    BBC Click
    Published on May 6, 2019
    The future is 5G: from race tracks to connected cows on the farm. Plus a look at Chinese company Huawei's leading role in developing the technology.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  4. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Here's where the US and China stand in race to 5G networks
    CNBC Television
    Published on May 20, 2019
    Craig Moffett, founder and senior analyst at MoffettNathanson, joins "Squawk Box" to break down where we are in the battle for 5G continues and why it matters.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  5. Dennismungai

    Dennismungai Notebook Deity

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    Does this pose any immediate risk to wildlife, say, killing birds, etc?
     
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  6. Dennismungai

    Dennismungai Notebook Deity

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    For me, it boils down to the feasibility of Gigabit-grade LTE, supported on some networks and devices such as the Netgear M1 portable hotspot.

    What 5G promises has several requirements that are concerning (to me):

    1.This:
    2. Cost: Like any new tech, the first wave of devices are likely to have outrageous pricing, topped with

    3. Actual viability: That high drop in power over distance means that 5G will, at best, function at full capacity in close proximity to a cell. And these types of waves are easily impeded by ordinary obstacles, such as your hands, etc. Translating into more antennas per device, and practically, even greater battery drain. And that last bit ties to #1 above: Potentially overpriced gadgets with subpar network performance in some areas, and questionable usability with a shorter than average battery life.

    A switch to 5G for networks omitting support for 4G LTE Gigabit speeds at this time would only play out as a marketing ploy. In an era where (some) mobile networks are bullshitting about 5G -E , a lot here has to be taken with a grain of salt.
     
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  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It's way too early to get reliable reports - 5G isn't fully implemented anywhere in all available bands, so who knows until it happens around were we live and we see it ourselves, or don't see it.

    RF doesn't have to kill to disrupt wildlife, as has already been discovered:

    Man-Made Electromagnetic Noise Disrupts a Bird’s Compass
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/.../electromagnetic-noise-disrupts-bird-compass/

    Effects of radio frequency electromagnetic radiation (RF-EMF) on honey bee queen development and mating success
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30682608
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2018/10/03/434142.full.pdf

    Look how many years it's taken for cell phone technology to begin to be noticed for the damage it can cause. Glioblastoma's have been noted with a number of high profile people dying from cancer site's right where they held or carried their cellphones - the head, chest, and groin.

    Do Cellphones Cause Brain Cancer or Not?
    Senator John McCain’s glioblastoma diagnosis revives a longstanding debate over the safety of wireless technology.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/07/do-cellphones-cause-brain-cancer-or-not/534303/
    https://www.google.com/search?q=cell+phone+glioblastomas

    I've posted a number of articles and channels that cover these issues in the past, in a few threads, do a local search on my posts.

    It's probably a good thing that people have reduced their use of cellphones for voice calls, holding the RF generating device as far from your body as possible, and varying the exposure area can reduce the concentration of exposure over time.

    Added below as #1:
    [Higher Power output needed from each Cell site, denser Cell distribution = many times the number of cell sites, cell sites much closer to humans and habitation, a virtual web of high power RF blanketing all human habitation areas 24/7 - you can not simply put down your phone / device to reduce the RF you are being exposed to daily, 24/7]

    I don't think 4G is going away for a long time, just like 3G is still with us and how it took years for analog cell coverage to disappear.

    It's going to take a long time before 5G rolls out everywhere, and if problems arise during that roll out I think people are going to be very much more "awake" about it than back in the 1980's.

    There is talk about switching the frequency use bands down from where they are now proposed for 5G, which will take some work to change, but it might be what is needed. Right now most (all?) 5G rolled out publicly are only using the lower bands, not the super high speed top millimeter wavelengths.
    5G bands snapshot_636543792416696911.PNG
    https://www.everythingrf.com/community/5g-frequency-bands

    What are 5G and mmWave, and when will you be able to realistically use them?
    https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...when-will-you-be-able-to-realistically-use-it
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    5G in total for mobile hasn't really been implemented anywhere - yet. If we are talking about 5G including the highest speed band of frequencies - where you get the magical speeds, AFAIK it's only in lab or testing stage.

    And, in some current 5G rollout's it's not mobile 5G instead it's a Wifi service with a 5G "hotspot".

    Semi-5G implementations are described in this recent article covering, with ATT 5GE being the most notorious - are faster 4G LTE, and have zero 5G in it. :)

    5G is real and Verizon's [Los Angeles] got the supersonic speeds to prove it

    Despite little coverage and early hiccups, the 5G rollout is chugging along.
    ROGER CHENG, MAY 18, 2019 5:00 AM PDT
    https://www.cnet.com/news/5g-is-real-and-verizons-got-the-super-sonic-speeds-to-prove-it/

    "...
    Sounds great, but when does 5G get here?
    Verizon launched the first "5G" service in the world in October, but it's a bit of a technicality -- a fixed broadband replacement, rather than a mobile service. An installer has to put in special equipment that can pick up the 5G signals and turn that into a Wi-Fi connection in the home so your other devices can access it.

    There's also some debate about whether the service even qualifies as 5G: It doesn't use the standards the industry has agreed on. The company wanted to jump out ahead, and used its own proprietary technology. Verizon argues that the speeds, which range from 300 megabits per second to 1 gigabit per second, qualify the service for 5G designation. Its rivals and other mobile experts dispute that claim.

    The launch was extremely limited in select neighborhoods in Houston, Indianapolis, and Los Angeles and Sacramento, California. (Let us know if you're among the lucky few who get it.)

    As of the end of December, AT&T was turning on its mobile 5G network in a dozen cities, and more specifically in "dense urban and high-traffic areas."

    Take note, Verizon: AT&T boasted that it's the "first and only company in the US to offer a mobile 5G device over a commercial, standards-based mobile 5G network." It plans to boost its coverage to a total of 22 cities in 2019.

    Verizon says it'll launch its mobile 5G in 2019...

    What about this 5G E thing from AT&T?
    Sorry, but that's more marketing fluff. AT&T's 5G E stands for 5G Evolution, or its upgraded 4G LTE network that has a path to real 5G.

    But the designation, which showed up on phones early this year, has caused some consumer confusion, with some thinking they already have 5G. To be clear, it's not, with many bashing AT&T for misleading customers. Sprint filed a lawsuit against AT&T, which, according to an AT&T spokesperson, the companies "amicably settled." AT&T has said it's "proud" that it went with the 5G E name.

    5G E does bring higher speeds, but not the kind of true benefits real 5G would bring.
    ..."

    Lots more interesting details - and links to other 5G related info - in the article... here's one example:

    "Many of the phones will use Qualcomm's X50 modem, which is designed specifically to tap into 5G spectrum. Later phones will use a second-generation chip that picks up more spectrum bands."

    Qualcomm already has a new 5G chip that promises sleeker, long-lasting phones
    The second-generation chip comes as we're still waiting on first-generation 5G smartphones.
    BY SHARA TIBKEN, FEBRUARY 19, 2019 4:30 AM PST
    https://www.cnet.com/news/qualcomms-new-5g-multimode-chip-means-sleeker-phones-better-battery-life/

    Even that future 5G chip doesn't come with onboard millimeter wavelength (highest 5G speeds) functions, an additional "millimeter wave module" is required:

    "Millimeter wave modules
    Qualcomm on Tuesday also announced a new module to go alongside the X55 and help it tap into fast, millimeter wave signals.
    ...
    On Tuesday, Qualcomm unveiled the second generation of its millimeter wave module, the QTM525. The new technology supports more bands, including the 26 GHz, 28 GHz and 39 GHz networks in North America, Korea, Japan, Europe and Australia. "

    So even that extended millimeter wave module's top end is 39GHZ, which is well below the 60GHZ band also required for full 5G support.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    tl;dr - 5G transmissions at the same frequency used by Weather Satellites to detect water vapor will "fog" their view, potentially interfering with successful weather forecasting, especially in urban areas - worldwide.

    Global 5G wireless networks threaten weather forecasts
    Next-generation mobile technology could interfere with crucial satellite-based Earth observations.
    Alexandra Witze,26 APRIL 2019
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01305-4

    "...They include the 23.8-gigahertz frequency, at which water vapour in the atmosphere emits a faint signal. Satellites, such as the European MetOp probes, monitor energy radiating from Earth at this frequency to assess humidity in the atmosphere below — measurements that can be taken during the day or at night, even if clouds are present. Forecasters feed these data into models to predict how storms and other weather systems will develop in the coming hours and days.

    But a 5G station transmitting at nearly the same frequency will produce a signal that looks much like that of water vapour. “We wouldn’t know that that signal is not completely natural,” says Gerth. Forecasts would become less accurate if meteorologists incorporated those bad data into their models."
     
  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    These speed test's comparing 5g and 4g at the same location are bogus comparisons. I've never seen such slow 4g speeds ever, even 3g speeds were faster. Those 4g numbers make the comparison worthless, CNET should have just shown 5g speeds alone. Note the super slow upload speeds on 5g.

    At times the 5g speeds shown on that tour are less than the 4g speeds I get already, about 160 / 15 mbps - on a 3 year old phone.

    Those 4G speeds show Sprint's lack of commitment to long term coverage for their customers. How long has 4G been in existence? Sprint couldn't get decent performance out of 4g in all that time? So now for 5G Sprint is putting in the effort to improve the coverage - but the paid for Sprint 4g service is left lagging? PR nightmare, I wonder why Sprint didn't figure this out before inviting journalists to tour that route?

    It is also telling how the intro starts, she's inside a vehicle and is losing and getting back 5g connectivity. All the Sprint Tour speed tests are done outside. Except for the bus hosted 5g tests, which likely use a gain antenna on the outside of the bus it looks like 5g inside a car won't hold the connection reliably. Yes, 5g is not wide spread yet, but in order to close up the coverage it's going to take a gigantic build-out of cell's.

    The LG V50 5G looks nice, especially with the added 2nd screen case. :)

    Testing Sprint's 5G network on the highway
    CNET
    Published on May 31, 2019
    We went around Dallas testing Sprint's 5G network. Not only was the connection impressively fast, it was pretty reliable too. For the full story, check out https://cnet.co/2KfB8mL. Watch us test Verizon's 5G network in Chicago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jypd...
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
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