Acer Preditor (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

Discussion in 'Acer' started by ThatOldGuy, Jun 3, 2018.

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  1. ThatOldGuy

    ThatOldGuy Notebook Deity

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    I was referring to the build quality (or Case) segment of the review; where it scored 71 as opposed to the MSI's 79

    The review here was what I would call inferior with panel gaps movement, and creaking

    As an aside:
    Never go by NBC's Average/overall Rating. it is better to compare their individual scores, so you can decide what aspects are important in your own weighing system.

    NBC Average/overall rating has become garbage where everything scores between 80-90 no matter what, with very few exceptions... making the difference between an 80 and an 83 huge
     
  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Rarely do reviewers undervolt - or tune the fan curve or tune the CPU or tune the FPS (they let it run wide open), which all contribute to higher temperatures, and all laptops these days (and for many years) ship with the CPU voltage too high to cover the wide range of CPU samples that might get built into the laptop.

    So what I do is subtract 10c for undervolt and another 5c for proper tuning, to get an idea of the potential, and for most reviews thats enough to drop the temperature under thermal throttling, and that's been true for all of my laptops out of the box - I can get the thermals down far enough to keep it and not need to re-paste or re-pad.

    It takes some thought and consideration, not much, but enough that some people panic and either return it or pay someone to re-paste it - or they try to do it themselves, when tuning would have been enough.

    The other problem is that people selling the idea of re-pasting / re-padding add the FUD about lower temps make the laptop live longer. In all the years I've been doing this, all my laptops are still running many years later, and haven't been re-pasted.

    YMMV, but I suggest doing what you can in the 2 week acceptance period to software tune the things that can be tuned to get the thermals down, and understand that temperatures under thermal throttling - even if they bump it once in a while, are supported as long term running temperatures by Intel and the makers.

    The new 6/8-core unlocked CPU's are going to generate short or long high power draw depending on how you OC it, and you will hit a barrier to tune under for stock hardware, and from what I've seen the actual benefit of additional hardware hacking isn't going to provide much of a performance boost, even if the numbers are higher the actual feel to the end user isn't going to matter - it's not worth the effort - just tune for the stock hardware and enough your laptop.

    Remember these new high end laptops with 144hz screens are going to put a higher load on CPU / GPU to hit those FPS highs, so be sure to tune the game eye candy - usually it's only 1 or 2 hardly noticeable post-processing items - like motion blur, water, grass, dof, and other filters - you can keep highest textures and quality - tune the software to fit the FPS to less than 100% load on the CPU to keep the thermals under control.

    Anyway, the Ryzen + Vega will be built "different" so it's hard to compare to the Intel 6 core 1070 / 1080 results, we need to wait to see what's what - and initially there may be teething issues like the Asus GL702ZC Ryzen + RX580, which were solved with software / firmware updates by AMD / Asus. So be aware that you will be entering into a new world that may take some time to optimize - and as always the bleeding edge has that name for a reason.

    After some personal reflection, if you think aren't tough enough to hang or deal with the problems wait for the 2nd generation, or at least wait for 3-6 months after release and keep checking for improvements until you think you are ok with how things are running. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    If notebookcheck's reviews are not worthy, why did you use their reviews as a definitive comparison to reject both MSI and Acer? :)

    And, you are the one that used a single (incorrectly translated) word to summarize their review vs a point by point commentary?

    IDK what's up with you, but you seem to want to summarily dismiss MSI and Acer build quality which isn't valid, at least in all the units I've handled.

    Again, these high end laptops have expensive components, and everything that goes into the structural build adde's weight and bulk, so you have to assume and understand that they will be built light - but strong - and there will be flexure to some extent no matter how solid the build - or they will be heavy like the new Alienware models.

    All of my MSI and Acer laptops are excellently built, and I've been very happy with them. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  4. ThatOldGuy

    ThatOldGuy Notebook Deity

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    ?? Not the point at all. Was just saying originally that the MSI's Chassis will be "Better Built"; I mean lets face it, its an Acer.

    Nothing dismissive of the whole package, and in fact never said anything negative about the MSI at all. Just that in comparing the 2 reviews (and I also have had hands on both previous models) the MSI is built better / more precise. (yes this is conjecture until the new Acer ships... but its Acer, they won't change much)

    Was trying to communicate that there is much to be desired from The Acer's Chassis quality; and that should not be high on your priority list if considering this machine.

    Build quality is high enough on my list that I would seriously consider the competition if I was in the market for such a large DTR. But I still think the Acer has fantastic points to draw on.
     
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  5. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

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  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    This is a very shallow / quick on the fly in the Conference Demo Booth review that didn't have time to test a range of games or benchmarks, nor does it tune any of the AMD CPU / GPU tunables - or even mention if they can be tuned.

    It's early days, and like the first Asus G702ZC Ryzen + RX580 software updates improved tuning and performance.

    It is nice to see the big time reviewers have an interest, and hopefully Gordon and other reviewers will do more in depth testing, including performance and thermal tuning using AMD / Acer software.

    I wonder how much the mobile Ryzen 56 as indicated it uses can be tuned?

    We just tested the all-AMD Acer Predator Helios 500 gaming laptop

    Here's how fast the new Predator Helios 500 is with Ryzen 7 2700 and Radeon Vega 56 graphics
    By Gordon Mah Ung Executive Editor, PCWorld | JUN 6, 2018 7:12 AM PT
    https://www.pcworld.com/article/327...d-acer-predator-helios-500-gaming-laptop.html

    "The new Acer Predator Helios 500 has enthusiasts of both Intel and AMD covered. That’s because you can now choose from the model shown here, which is built around an Intel CPU and Nvidia graphics, or go all AMD with the version you see at the top of this article.

    The AMD version of the Helios 500 features a 17-inch, 144Hz FreeSync Panel; 32GB of DDR4; a 256GB M.2 SSD; and 1TB HDD. And most importantly for AMD fans, it features an 8-core Ryzen 7 2700 and Radeon Vega 56 graphics.

    The CPU is the desktop Ryzen 7 2700. It’s an 8-core chip with SMT for 16-threads of computing power. It’s also likely the fastest CPU around for many multi-threaded loads. In Cinebench R15, for example, we saw the Helios 500 spit out a score of 1,512.

    (For reference, a Ryzen 7 2700X is in the 1,800 range. That X part does hit higher clock speeds, though.)

    As far as we’re concerned, the performance of the Radeon Vega 56 chip is even more interesting. We know from our review of the desktop part that it punches beyond its class, and likely caused Nvidia to release the GeForce GTX 1070 Ti in response.

    Although we thought the Radeon Vega 56 was a re-purposed desktop chip, we were told that, no, it’s a part that always been intended for mobile use.

    That tells us it may very well be the very first sighting of the Radeon RX Vega Mobile chip that AMD talked up at CES. Mind you, this is not the same graphics core used in Intel’s Kaby Lake G, that unprecedented Intel/AMD collaboration.

    As its name implies, the Radeon Vega 56 should be a full Vega 56 part. We only had one benchmark available to run, but it’s pretty modern—Ubisoft’s Far Cry 5. We set the laptop to 1920x1080, selected Ultra and also switched off FreeSync to prevent it from interfering with any results.

    We know public results of a desktop GeForce GTX 1060 6GB cards are in the 70 fps range and GeForce GTX 1070 cards sit in the 90 fps range. The Vega 56 in the Helios 500? It hit a pretty respectable 80 fps, but it’s still definitely short of a full desktop Vega 56, which actually pushes the 110 fps range in this game.

    Given the thermal limitations of laptops, we have to assume the chip in the Helio 500 is running the GPU at lower clock speeds.

    The last detail we’ll mention is the battery, a 74-watt hour cell. Like most desktop replacement gaming laptops with big screens and big GPUs and CPUs, we’d expect that you’d be lucky to get an hour under heavy loads. But that’s actually typical."

    Acer Predator Helios 500 with Ryzen and Vega plus benchmarks
    PCWorldVideos
    Published on Jun 6, 2018
    Gordon shows you the Predator Helios 500 with Ryzen 2700 and Vega 56. He even got his hands dirty and pulled benchmarks for Cinebench and Far Cry 5. Melissa already did a hands-on with the Intel and Nvidia option, and now Gordon has all the AMD fans covered.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
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  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    laptopmedia.com has other Helios 500 content to check out:

    Inside Acer Predator Helios 500 – dis-assembly, internal photos and upgrade options [+Video]
    From: Alex Iliev, 26 May 2018 / 05:12
    http://laptopmedia.com/highlights/i...ly-internal-photos-and-upgrade-options-video/


    Acer Predator Helios 500’s IPS display is PWM-free for all brightness levels
    From: Silvia Genova 6 June 2018 / 04:32
    http://laptopmedia.com/news/acer-pr...isplay-is-pwm-free-for-all-brightness-levels/

    Acer Predator Helios 500 display profiles – Quality and Health impact results
    From: Silvia Genova 11 June 2018 / 02:17
    http://laptopmedia.com/highlights/a...y-profiles-quality-and-health-impact-results/


    Display profiles for the Helios 500 4k Display with Intel CPU's, but the screens should be the same. I haven't tried their services, but seemed interesting enough to share. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  8. SMGJohn

    SMGJohn Notebook Consultant

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    Imao for a 17 incher its got the most pathetic storage options I seen to date in a laptop of this size, ONE 2.5 inch drive slot, only TWO M2 slots, are you serious? There 15 inch laptops out there with more storage options LOL...
    That Vega 56 was enticing but if its glued with tears of gamers onto the motherboard, there no point its gonna heat up so much over time the soldier is gonna get loose, no way I want to use a gaming laptop where the GPU does 90 degrees constantly in games.

    BGA ebola belongs in the trash at least the Ryzen is PGA on the AMD version of it but the CPU is the least useful upgrade candidate in a laptop to begin with specially if you just get the highest end one to begin with, who buys 1070 in a laptop with i3? No one.
     
  9. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    Its got enough storage.

    4TB SSD should have everything covered for storage, and m.2 for the w/e needs faster transfers, I hardly max out the mSATA connection but I use platter drives for the majority of my storage anyways.

    This is the only laptop I am interested in on the planet at the moment. I have my Ranger though so I should be fine for a bit anyways. Maybe I can find one used in a couple years time...

    Curious about the memory support, as thats needed to truly allow Ryzen to shine, not happy about the heatsink on the GPU but at least its not like the 17 R3/4 with the weak legs.

    Color me extremely interested.
     
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  10. SMGJohn

    SMGJohn Notebook Consultant

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    https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-vega-56-acer-predator-helios-500-120w-notebook-gpu/
    The notebook featured a desktop class Ryzen 7 2700 processor and also, a Radeon RX Vega 56 discrete graphics solution. The Radeon RX Vega 56 part was not a mobile optimized variant but a proper discrete desktop solution designed with the MXM form factor.

    Intriguing statement by Wccftech, still not proper disassembly video on the AMD variant?
     
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