Acer Predator (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

Discussion in 'Acer' started by ThatOldGuy, Jun 3, 2018.

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  1. SMGJohn

    SMGJohn Notebook Evangelist

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    I hope there wont be an AMD Alienware, their new chassis got terrible cooling.
    That Acer at least got proper cooling on it.
    Its likely Acer might make a second edition of that laptop as 5700M is coming closer to reality.

    Sent fra min SM-G970F via Tapatalk
     
  2. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    Because, of those 4 RAM slots, two that come with pre-installed RAM are right below the kb which require disassembly of the entire unit to reach (which is not a good idea for a unit that's brand new and still under warranty).

    Also, instead of using 2600MhZ or 3000MhZ RAM, Acer used 2400MhZ with high latencies, which didn't exactly extract most performance out of Zen+.
    Zen2 really needs 3000-3200MhZ RAM with low latencies to run at optimum... otherwise, using 2600MhZ for example would result in much lower performance (especially in games).

    Furthermore, Zen 2 doesn't play too well with quad memory. What's the point in adding RAM slots when you cannot make the most use of them in regards to performance and only increase the RAM quantity (there needs to be a viable implementation here that works properly).
    AM4 is intricately limited to dual-channel. So, there's no point in wasting resources by adding more RAM slots.

    Besides, in Helios 500, if you tried populating all 4 RAM slots, the memory speed would 'default' to 2400MhZ (though this is mostly due to how Acer set up the BIOS).
    They crippled the machine unnecessarily from the get go... I'd rather they learn from those mistakes.
    If they want to give it 4 RAM slots, they better put them all on the same (easily accessible) side which doesn't require full disassembly, and don't cripple the RAM speeds if you populate all RAM slots.

    The cooling however was superb... they shouldn't really change that (improve upon it further if possible yes).
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  3. xdyphx

    xdyphx Notebook Enthusiast

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    This is not true at all and stop with these forum nonsenses about ram performance, you dont have any proof sorry and you spreading what you read on forums. I TESTED on my own with 32gb of ram and 48gb (and 64gb on the way in few weeks, its not a priority, i want to populated with all dual rank rams and check the difference) and i can tell you, in cb r15 benchmark is not slower but better by 1 point, in games is not worse but is the same performance on 1080p high-ultra settings (or better). And ryzen dont have problems with 4 dimm rams, but with higher clocked rams because they are not stable at all or even wont go past 2400mhz even on desktop mobos, its a difference, and you cant overclock ram that much and you can forget about ram timings too.

    And my ram (which comes with predator) runs on cl13-14-13-30, problem solved :D

    Ram speed is not a limit with this laptop, but is a GPU. Most of the games gpu bottleneck a cpu!

    Its not a proof, i will test by myself soon.


    Look my CPU score
    https://www.3dmark.com/compare/spy/9326735/spy/8885339#
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
  4. Deks

    Deks Notebook Prophet

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    The video in question shows 2700x (not 2700) and the RAM was operating at 3200MhZ.
    Furthermore, the motherboard in the video was X470 with latest bios (at the time of filming).

    You cannot possibly assert that same conditions (and results) would apply to Helios 500 where it was confirmed by others (and independent testing) that RAM speed automatically drops to 2400MhZ when people populated all 4 slots with RAM (something which was reported by users in this forum) even if you put higher speed RAM into the unit.

    Also, other testing demonstrated that higher RAM speeds DO affect gaming performance and that Ryzen (especially Zen1 and Zen+) can be affected by such low speeds.

    In quad channel, the RAM speed may not drop too much or at all on a desktop motherboard (especially X470 with a latest bios), but what about Helios 500 with cut down BIOS which seemed to have been castrated for all intense and purposes and usually has 2700 CPU to work with?

    Also, your 3d Mark score tells me nothing as (again), it compares 2700X cpu with more RAM (how on Earth did you get 49GB RAM?) and a better SSD.
    Increasing RAM in itself can provide a slight increase in performance (about 2.6% your score shows) just because Windows has more RAM to use... or it could also have something to do with the fact your Helios 500 has a 1TB Samsung EVO SSD drive in it (whereas most others come with 256GB).

    Compared to your month earlier results, you're only getting 2.6% increase in performance.. that's nowhere near 10% performance uplift which should be seen with higher clocked memory such as 3200MhZ for example - but we won't know because your RAM is operating most likely at 2400 Mhz and therefore, the results are within a margin of error (aka not significant enough to warrant any mentioning).
     
  5. SMGJohn

    SMGJohn Notebook Evangelist

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    Ryzen can do fine with 2667MT/s as long as the timings are CL14 or lower if possible CL12.
    https://community.amd.com/community...emory-oc-showdown-frequency-vs-memory-timings

    I have seen someone compare really tight memory timing on Ryzen from 2400MT/s all the way up to 3466 but I cannot remember if it was an article or a video.
    CL12 timing even at 2400 was very close to CL16 3200MT/s which is very respectable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  6. xdyphx

    xdyphx Notebook Enthusiast

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    You really dont get it? You cant get any faster ram than kingston hyperx impact 2400mhz cl14 (its faster than any 2666mhz ram on market for laptops) which is compatibile with this laptop and works almost without issues. Even if Acer update the bios with higher clocked rams someday, and if you want to upgrade to 3000mhz+ which kingston is probaly the only option because predator works well only with JEDEC/PnP standard, you wont get any noticeable profit in performance because timings are much worse (for example kingston 2666mhz works with cl15-17-17 and its not even close to 2400 mhz cl14-14-14). Comparision: 2400mhz cl14-14-14, 2800mhz cl16-16-16, 3200mhz cl18-18-18 are identical in terms of performance. This is a laptop and not desktop which have superior rams and XMP/intel rams wont work or you wont get advertised speed! And you dont know what is meaning of my uploaded video and 3dmark CPU test. Its not about better performance, i just show you that you not know what are you talking about (you said its pointless to have more than 2 dimms in ryzen because you read on forums about desktop version with much better rams), performance is the same (and not worse) if you have 2 or 4 dimm slots used and Acer Predator works the same with 2 or 4 rams!. And here is maybe someone who needs 64gb or (or 4 slots) for work, predator is more than gaming laptop, its productivity tool with good gpu and cpu for that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  7. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    That all depends on if you can tune the memory, which we dont know would happen if the BIOS is unlocked.

    Otherwise I am getting higher speed ram with the best possible timings, then tuning from there.
     
  8. Uckaynotebook

    Uckaynotebook Notebook Enthusiast

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    Im planning to upgrade the memory of my laptop and also repaste it. Any recomendations on vrm thermal pads? Also is it worth it to upgrade to 2700x?
     
  9. SMGJohn

    SMGJohn Notebook Evangelist

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    Gelid for sure, good performance and cheaper than Fujipoly.
    As for CPU I am guessing you got the Ryzen 5,if all you do is gaming the gains would be negligible except in maybe one or two games that actually use 8 cores.
    But for anything other than gaming it could be worth it but buy second hand in that case unless you get it for a good price.

    Sent fra min SM-G970F via Tapatalk
     
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  10. win32asmguy

    win32asmguy Moderator Moderator

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    2700x could be useful if you do any heavy work on your computer - another user here tested to working and pulling up to 105W just like it would in a desktop. I would personally keep all original parts if I did an upgrade, so they could be swapped back in if RMA was needed to Acer. Technically the only "consumer upgrade" parts are the HDD, SSD, and back RAM slots. My guess is they would deny warranty if it were shipped to them with upgraded elsewhere.

    For ram get something that can do CL14 @ 2400MT/s or better. It needs to be in the JEDEC timing tables, this machine doesn't support XMP. Ram upgrades work best if you completely remove the motherboard and replace the stock sticks on the backside. I took the machine apart a few times and found that the best slots to use if you only have two sticks is the backside, nearest the processor socket, and on the front in the high socket. I have photos if it helps. These are the sockets that are identified as A2 / B2 in HWinfo64, and allow the best timings of the HyperX 2666 (operating at 2400) that I used.

    I will also note that the wifi can be upgraded as well, so if you want something like Intel AX200 it is easy to access while repasting. Be sure to get some Kapton tape when you order paste and pads. It can be useful to have when doing upgrades like this.
     
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