Acer Predator (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

Discussion in 'Acer' started by ThatOldGuy, Jun 3, 2018.

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  1. undervolter0x0309

    undervolter0x0309 Notebook Consultant

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    Hooolyyyyy! Bless you and Thank You! Will get on this, this week and report back progress and journey! Gracias
     
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  2. undervolter0x0309

    undervolter0x0309 Notebook Consultant

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    Decided to take a stab, It doesn't seem to apply the ram overclocking. After changing this to let's say 1333Mhz
    upload_2018-11-25_18-42-51.png
    It'll ask to restart and after restart, it stays at 1200Mhz.
     
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  3. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    My experience with RAM overclocking is very small. But with my m4600 you had to edit the XMP profile on all sticks for it to kick in.

    Used R/W Everything to that which isnt for everyone.
     
  4. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

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    3466 at CL14? thats an insane timing. ryzen will probably benefit more from lower cas than higher bandwidth imo, im surprised you are on zen1 and not even zen+ with junk IMC, u must have gotten one hell of a chip.

    also u cant compare desktop memory with laptop man, at best we can probably do is 3400 at cl 17.
     
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  5. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    So they locked ram down in BIOS/UEFI. Do they have any choices in firmware for it? Like XMP on or off and any timings in the BIOS? R/W Everything might be a little advanced for some. A paid version of Thaiphoon Burner can write to the XMP part of the SPD as well and may have a simpler interface, although still having a learning curve. Was hoping to avoid stepping through that with someone (which may be unavoidable). Last time I did that though, I was working with XMP and SPD for DDR3.

    I was running 3600@CL14-17-17 until the new bios was released around June/July (the ones for compatibility with TR2). The new timings give roughly the same performance in tasks the 3600 clock did due to allowing much tighter timings. I've got a really solid IMC on this chip, so pretty happy with it. And no, it needs higher frequency up to around 3200 due to the IF being geared to the memory speed. Above 3200, the benefit to speed drops off quickly. Tighter timings do help, and I'd recommend speed up to 3200, then focusing on the tightest timings after that.

    And why go to Zen+. I have a chip in the top 2-3% of Zen 1950Xs where I can do 4.1GHz@1.35V and a strong IMC. Zen is 7% slower than Intel's chips and Zen+ is 4% slower as far as IPC. The average 16 and 18 core Intel chips reach 4.4GHz ( https://siliconlottery.com/pages/statistics ), while SMT works better on AMD chips, so that gap isn't so large, depending on use cases. My use cases don't need the the little extra I would get from 100MHz more and 3% IPC improvement (or around there). So, even not in my case, I would have told most owners of a 1950X not to upgrade as there isn't much difference. If not an OCer, then PBO (precision boost overdrive) would be awesome for a producer or content creator as it will do it all for you and is done well enough major OCers just tell people to use it over manual tuning (which is high praise).

    As to laptop memory, you are correct. It will be looser than desktop. And dealing with MEM trace topology is horrible with laptops, and is part of the reason even Intel didn't have near as high clocking ram speeds for a long while. I just hate locked down ecosystems with a passion.

    As to my next CPU upgrade, that means the Zen 2 chips really look good to me, and it will be finances at release that determines if I go Zen 2 or Zen 3 (also if I think Zen 3 will go PCIe 5.0 with DDR5, which is a solid, long lasting platform, even if the socket may change in 2021). There is a chance TR will use the same I/O chip as Epyc, or a cut down version of the same, and Zen 3 is already said to be supporting DDR5, while Epyc 2 will support PCIe 4.0 and the Vega 20 7nm cards which are PCIe 4.0 cards.

    But that is why I'm waiting. Intel has nothing leaked on that front and should only have a 14nm++ refresh for HEDT (the 9980XE is built on 14nm+, but with some refinements). 10nm Intel HEDT won't arrive until 2020 with the server parts and will go against Zen 3 which will have EUV working. Performance going from DUV to EUV isn't known, but 5nm with EUV seems to be 15% performance over 7nm, so most of the improvements will have to come from uarch that year. AMD may decide for the chip after Zen 3 to go to 3nm as 5nm doesn't offer much for performance (now talking 2021, which Intel should have 7nm around that time frame and should introduce EUV around that time as well). In other words, that is when Intel can correct their ship and should be the most competitive point on CPU hardware (Intel is slacking now and next year, and rumored 10nm chips are eh at best, so this is AMD closing the gap and outpricing Intel, but in 2021, both sides will have process parity, or extremely close on that, making it a uarch fight, something we haven't seen since the intro of x64 chips).

    I'm also waiting to see if the VRM get beefed up on boards to support the high frequency line AMD is looking at putting out for server chips (look up the 7371 Epyc chip in the news, bringing the boost clocks on server chips to the mid to high 3GHz range). This suggests AMD will take all performance gains on a couple 16-core and 32-core lines, while the 64-core chip will likely take all in power savings. That means TR 16 core and 32 core speeds, slightly reduced from what is seen on that platform due to needing to fit a server case, etc. If they have the equivalent of working PBO on the Epyc 2 chips that focus on frequency, that way I can get the higher core clocks, then if a server board has the VRM to feed those chips, I'd just build a server and use the 8-channel memory bandwidth (even though supported memory speeds are locked down, the new chips support up to 3200MHz ram in server, and DDR5, the only dimm so far to meet jedec standard is a 5200MHz dimm, and DDR5, when clocked the same as DDR4, still has a 30% bandwidth advantage). So I'm taking a wait and see approach and may just go from TR to server instead.

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAD7H7D63922
    7351P = $1077
    https://www.amazon.com/Supermicro-M...id=1543241827&sr=8-4&keywords=SP3+motherboard
    MB = $461
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147651
    8x32GB 2666@CL17 =8*$380=$3040
    TOTAL = $4578 for 32 cores of goodness, 256GB of ram goodness, and 128 PCIe lanes. For half that ram, you can get ECC 2666@CL17 for $1664 for 128GB, which isn't bad at all for registered DIMMs, and reduced the cost to $3202 for those components, which really isn't too far off of a workstation build and makes me want to get those memory lanes and PCIe lanes. Sometimes people need to just see what is there for their use cases.
     
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  6. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

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    we will have to see about ddr5. if IF is now separate from ram speed with zen2 onward then people dont need to spend a premium on it any longer.
     
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  7. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    I agree, but beating Intel to ddr5 is something that should be applauded (or even tying them since ice lake and zen3 release around the same time). Remember how long it was before AMD added DDR4 support? Lol
    Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
     
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  8. undervolter0x0309

    undervolter0x0309 Notebook Consultant

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    For articles like this: https://www.pcworld.com/article/331...vidia-in-acer-predator-helios-500.html?page=2

    "The reason is most likely clock speed. The Ryzen 7 2700 in the Acer mostly tops out at 3.5GHz, with only occasional and very, very short bumps to 3.7GHz. The Core i9, even stock, was always well north of 4GHz."

    Is this even accurate without mentioning that Ryzen allows for changing the clock using Ryzen Master? They mention i9's "turbo" mode so why wouldn't they at least mention that you can comfortably up the processor using Ryzen Master?

    edit: Emailed editor, hopefully they update their article.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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  9. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    Regular reviewers are only good for assessing the physical appearance and stock cooling.

    Everything after that is basically up to us to figure out the nitty gritty.
     
  10. undervolter0x0309

    undervolter0x0309 Notebook Consultant

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    Makes this forum indispensable.
    The excess of tech reviewers as well as how popular they are, is turning most of them into superficial users that tend towards the average.

    They see 1000x more devices since they mostly don't have to buy them.
    It's unfortunate since a lot of products require intimate knowledge/experience (you better for your hard earned money).

    It's just sad that they have influence, when they're very much out of touch with the reality of hardware (most but not all of course).

    I'm making share i share the positive experience as far and wide as possible.
     
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