Acer Predator (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

Discussion in 'Acer' started by ThatOldGuy, Jun 3, 2018.

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  1. BrightSmith

    BrightSmith Notebook Evangelist

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    A pity the OP in that thread didn't follow up with a more detailed report (temps, undervolting, TDP tweaking...)
     
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  2. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Notebook Guru

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    Sure, I see your point. More detail as to what the link is about is not redundant. Having said (and this next part does not take away from your helpful suggestion) I would have thought that posting a link in a thread about a very specific topic would indeed give a clue as to what the posted link is about. However there maybe less then semi intelligent people reading this, so take no chances, spell it out in graphic detail. I concur with you on this.

    Bottom line is, no one could (reasonably) argue that more information about the link is wrong, so as you suggest, far better to give more info rather then less.

    Will proceed that way in future.

    I really hope someone here gets that laptop soon. I almost pulled the trigger on the ASUS. Glad I waited. I dont want to keep waiting though but also dont want to buy a lemon. So we look to this forum where the guys who know what they are on about will reveal all to us. Cant wait for that.
     
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  3. BrightSmith

    BrightSmith Notebook Evangelist

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  4. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I suppose one of us could sign up there and post questions in reply to his post... :)

    Sign In or Register to comment
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It's not unusual for laptops to have slower speed RAM, especially in the original build. Although IDK if faster RAM will be recognized by the BIOS, it might be worth trying, and contacting Acer for support for higher speed RAM in a future BIOS update.

    Initially the 67xx / 77xx CPU laptops would only support 2133mhz memory as well, and some still haven't gotten much further, newer laptops yes, but support in older laptops hasn't changed.

    It will take lots of user complaints, filing tickets with support, to get faster and broader RAM support in future laptops.

    "You can have any color you want, as long as it's "Black"...Henry Ford

    It's a matter of fighting the "bean counters" trying to make a price point, and with high RAM prices it's a hard sell to build in the fastest "most expensive" RAM out of the box.

    There are few BIOS updates for laptops done by these companies, so I wouldn't expect the support for RAM to change in existing models, like it can for desktop motherboards.

    More complaints filed via tickets could help...for future laptops. But, again, it's worth trying faster memory - if you've got the time to futz around with it. Several times I've been lucky and faster RAM has worked in laptops, but I've heard a lot reports from others that it didn't work in their (different model) laptops, so make sure you can return the RAM before you buy it.

    Worse yet is single stick of RAM (or a single memory slot!) rather than pairing RAM for Dual Channel support, which is just as or more critical than RAM speed.

    AMD needs to do a better job of writing into the CPU order "contract" that makers are required to provide high performance Dual Channel RAM in their AMD laptop builds. :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Well, all laptops have "quirks", some more than others, the first of a new generation of CPU usually are the most likely to have gotcha's, and AMD along with laptop makers applying AMD CPU's / GPU's to laptops is all new too. Even established building blocks weren't available or applicable, and yet might get used, so it's a learning process.

    I think most / all of the Asus guys were / are happy to be "first", even if they kvetch about the tiniest of problems - like complete motherboard failures - or catastrophic fan control failures - :p

    That's the fun of being on the bleeding edge. :)
     
  7. BrightSmith

    BrightSmith Notebook Evangelist

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    I understand why the OEM sells its with cheap RAM, the problem is, again, perception: I doubt if reviewers will take sufficiently into account that Ryzen is much more sensitive to lower speed RAM than 8th generation Intel. Hopefully quality resellers will offer the option of replacing the RAM with something more sensible.

    I've registered at the Acer forum, btw :p
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Hey that's great news, please keep us in the loop with updates from the Acer forum :)

    It's not that the resellers don't want to offer the RAM speed upgrades, they love selling high margin RAM to customers, it's that the BIOS won't recognize the higher speed and use it - for the most part either it won't work or the higher speed RAM will still run at the forced stock speed.

    The @Prema BIOS supported laptops, Clevo's for the most part - but I think there is an MSI 16L13 @Prema and @Eurocom Support BIOS's that have been modded to support higher speed RAM in those laptops.

    Asus has been good about recognizing XMP settings and supporting them, but I haven't checked for a while - and I don't recall if anyone with the Asus Ryzen laptop have tried higher speed RAM.

    You could inquire with Acer your intention to run faster RAM in your Helios 500 Ryzen laptop and see what they say.

    It's a game of patience and politeness with support, to get your inquiry escalated through the first line of defense, up through the support manager - and across to the engineering manager and finally to an engineer with the access to check for RAM support in the BIOS - and even better, find the engineer that can push a BIOS change to support XMP or specific higher speed RAM.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=SODIMM+XMP+support

    It may be that the Acer BIOS already does it. Like I said before I had good luck with several laptops where I tried higher speed RAM with similar timings to the stock RAM - it helps to pick RAM from the same production series - double check the expanded list of RAM made by the stock manufacturer for higher speed sku's from the same series.

    None of my queries at the time resulted in support from the laptop maker, they didn't escalate my request through to engineering, until I reported success with a particular brand / sku of higher speed memory, then someone got interested - I was offering something useful, not just asking for help - and that got the ball rolling.

    RAM has gotten expensive, but it was expensive back then too, I searched around for sellers of RAM that I could work / test out RAM at their office - so I didn't open sealed RAM blister packs, I used RAM already pulled for builds, so there was no cost to them for my testing.

    When the stars align you can make it happen, but if you don't have access to lots of RAM to test it's a crap shoot. I've never gotten stuck with RAM or needed to sell it after failing a test, but others have, so be prepared.

    SODIMM's are different than DIMM's and there isn't as much variety at times, so that may be a limitation too, especially when we switch to DDR5 in 2019, and need to characterize all of this work all over again. :)
     
  9. SMGJohn

    SMGJohn Notebook Evangelist

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    The Acer is not good value for what you get, for same price you can get Clevo with 8700k and 1080 MXM GPU, this is much better value, I love AMD but there no point to use AMD for mobile stuff or even desktop because AMD are slow fools, I do not believe AMD can beat the 2080 Ti amazing performance even if costly GPU it is worth the price.

    Acer with the Vega 56 is also disappointing, why would you want this? I can put the 1070 in my Clevo P150EM and get better results using the proper 150W MSI card instead of the ****ty throttled Eurocom 1070.
    The Acer Predator also has horrendous I/O options, no SD card slot, are you serious?? Why put a 8 core CPU in a laptop and market it for gamers?? I expect 8 cores in a workstation laptop not a gaming laptop yet Acer did this because it makes no sense, its bad choices.
    It also has horrendous storage options, only one 2.5 inch slot with no slot for anything else, even Clevo today has at LEAST two slots for 2.5 inch in their 15 inch notebooks, 15 INCH come on Acer.
    This is clearly a laptop marketed for gaming, its useless for workstation use, no storage options, only has two M2 slots which is wank, even 13 inch laptops have more these days. It also has ****ty I/O port so you cannot use this laptop for workstation tasks, you need to have SD card slots and lots of USB ports.

    Ryzen 5 is maximum you would want to go for gaming only, Ryzen 7 is not made for gaming but for workstation use, the only game I even know about that uses 8 cores is BF1, not even BFV uses 8 cores anymore, even the Asus laptop with Ryzen first gen has Ryzen 5 option alongside 7 yet Acer does not.
     
  10. Reciever

    Reciever D! For Dragon!

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    I guess you're the type that only plays one game at a time?

    You need more than 2TB on a single HDD for a local system? I mean I understand why someone might want more, I have 10TB on my m4600 but its my plex server.

    workstations are going to USB-C for docks/hubs so its not surprising to see less I/O built in.

    Saying Ryzen 7 isnt for gaming but 5 is, is a little ridiculous when they are in fact the same die. They have all the same capabilities save for core / thread count. The Battlefield example is a bit moot, as anyone getting 8 cores to also game on very likely do more than JUST game. Stream, surfing the web, watching video content. Its a computer, not a terminal.

    I must be the exception I guess.
     
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