Acer Predator (Vega 56+Ryzen 2) Helios 500

Discussion in 'Acer' started by ThatOldGuy, Jun 3, 2018.

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  1. BrightSmith

    BrightSmith Notebook Evangelist

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    Why is it an odd response? For gaming purposes I would still advise to buy a 8700K DTR now instead of a 2700, or the 9900K when it arrives.

    My point was tactically: that Acer should have marketed the 2700 as a professional cpu, because it would have scored well against the LGA and BGA Intel competition. Combining the 2700 with a neutered Vega will inevitably draw the comparison with Intel + nVidia gaming laptops (heck, the other helios 500). Result: AMD seems to offer an inferior product, performance-wise.
     
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  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It's not inferior enough to mention any longer, the benchmarks have been improving as the AMD drivers and Windows updates bring performance improvements. The performance keeps getting better, and it's more than good enough.

    Anyone looking for an AMD Ryzen desktop CPU laptop with a AMD Vega GPU aren't going to care if it's a little slower than higher priced Intel garbage ($2499 8950HQ / $2299 8750H) now will they?

    Only an Intel fanboi would troll that line...

    There's no need to focus the marketing to the professional market - or the gamer market, as AMD fans will come looking for AMD CPU / AMD GPU laptops whenever they arrive and in whatever form they take, giving us an AMD alternative to buying Intel crap one more time. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  3. BrightSmith

    BrightSmith Notebook Evangelist

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    Surely AMD wants to market more broadly than to its already convinced fans? If the intel+nvidia helios 500 is priced at the same level* as the AMD variant and scores -even a little bit- better, why would an 'ordinary' consumer not buy the intel/nvidia system?

    For a 'neutral' buyer, the strengths of the 2700 could be so much more convincing in a professional workstation than in a gaming laptop, as it would beat the 8750H, 8950HK, and 8700K hands-down in for example content creation applications. This would make LGA Ryzen an attractive alternative for professional laptops, and its reputation could in turn open up the gaming laptop market. Instead we'll get the 2800H, which is only a 4-core proc, targeted for budget gaming laptops, if we're honest.

    * Of course, if it's priced considerably cheaper it could, indeed, convince consumers.
     
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  4. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Notebook Guru

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  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    The gaming performance is good enough, the customers are smart enough to know they are trading off top GPU performance for CPU multicore performance. Customers are also smart enough to search based on CPU and GPU, and not limit their searches to "Workstation" or "Gaming" laptops specifically.

    For many years now the best performing laptops have been gaming laptops, and professionals have already crossed over looking for higher performance than offered in the limited range of workstation laptops. There are so many more high performance gaming laptop form factor options than found as "professional workstation laptops".

    Plenty of AMD gamers would never think to cross over to a workstation build - usually much higher priced - and as I said the cross over the other direction by professionals looking for high performance laptops - finding them in gaming laptops - has already happened years ago.

    I think you are out of touch with how the markets have gone, and are missing the point completely.

    The 50% market share for AMD against Intel consumer CPU's indicates a very broad migration to AMD acceptance.

    AMD only needs to convince makers to build any laptop with any form factor, using any of their lines of CPU's / GPU's / APU's, and there is a large built-in and growing fan base ready to buy them right now.

    There are more desktop like APU's coming for laptops, follow up here:

    AMD's Ryzen CPU's (Ryzen/TR/Epyc) & Vega/Polaris GPU's
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...ga-polaris-gpus.799348/page-513#post-10796869

    Don't worry about it, I am sure everyone else here looking for AMD laptops don't care about Intel / Nvidia performance advantages one little bit, I know I don't. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Nice, complete with an untuned out of the box CB15 + Time Spy 1.0 benchmark...

    "Cinebench and 3DMark Firestrike. I haven't changed anything. So no undervoltage and fan on auto. Everything out of the box. The first attempt on Firestrike was slightly better (over 14,000). The fan was quiet during the test. At 3DMark it had trouble recognizing the video card.
    My first game in League of Legens (full settings) stayed stable over 130 fps. Without power supply over 70 fps."
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Those scores should be able to be tuned up a bit further, the problem we often have is inexperienced people get them and post out of the box results - just like reviewers - with system updates and other mis-settings applied - and then those results get quoted as being "crap". I hope we see owners with tuning experience get them and post results too.

    No actual firm delivery date though, mostly a non-specific "soon" - we are already well past week 33, 34, 35, 37 mentioned, so maybe it will pay to continue to watch that thread for updates. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  7. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Notebook Guru

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    The point is that at last there is a first hand account with at least SOMETHING to read and try to get at some sort of idea of what this laptop setup may be.

    The other point is that, this result may well be what the majority of users end up with....how many come to forums like this to figure out how to squeeze the last drop of performance out of it ? Some sure, but many who wont. So a lot of users will only see that level of performance.

    I would say its good to know what the baseline performance is without any tweaks.

    All in all, imho, its a useful post from the guy.

    I would expect once the laptop is mainstream and the experts here get thier hands on it we will see just how much performance can be extracted from it and boy, i relish the day we can read that. But till then, this is all we have, and to me it has at least some use.
     
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  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    That's why I posted the results myself here, with an explanation as preface to the poor results.

    Thanks for posting the link, but next time please help out by putting in the effort to post the interesting stuff directly here - you'd already found it and filtered out the interesting bits, why not go that extra step and write it up for us all to share?

    I don't mind doing the work myself for you; I don't like to take all the fun away from the experience, and I like to see others enjoy it for themselves.

    I've found quite often that such results posted can disappear, so I like to archive them here directly in case the link or the post disappears. Also, many people can't be bothered to actually click on the link and will start asking questions that could have been answered by reading the post(s) of interest, or posting the goodies here for all to see.

    His results post is from 5 days ago now, you'd think he would have come back and posted updates... maybe he still will. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
  9. Jim Beam

    Jim Beam Notebook Guru

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    I thought posting the link and letting people do a little for themselves is also appropriate.

    I mean, I didnt just say that I found this info and this is what was said and leave it at that .......i took the time to share the link.

    I also think its cleaner to this thread to leave all that other data on the other site....and the whole thread can be read so the context to the thread is clear.

    idk, I just thought that was a better way. Sorry if it offended you.
     
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  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Hey, I'm trying to make a helpful suggestion based on 40 years of doing this, on how to help improve the communication of the interesting stuff we all find.

    That's why I made the effort to filter and post the interesting details myself, like I said, it clears up and focuses the points of interest.

    It's an out of the box result, and that's not as good as it's going to get. It's better than nothing, but not by much, and just like poorly done reviews poorly worked out results from owners half-hearted efforts - with no follow up - disappoint those looking for optimal results.

    Often it's not clear on first scan what someone is thinking when they post their link, which of the dozens of posts at the other end of that link are of interest - unless it's a link to a specific post, which this one wasn't.

    I'm trying to suggest that you aren't doing anyone any favors with a bare link with little more than "came across this, others may find it a useful read" - what was it exactly that was of interest?, let me go ahead and read a dozen posts and see if I can catch a clue.

    It's always a good idea to include a link to back up any details posted - the source of the info - even if it's all been said in a post here - that's the other extreme of not posting enough info - not posting the link to the source.
     
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