Acer Predator 21 X

Discussion in 'Acer' started by Nomad, Aug 31, 2016.

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  1. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    The fact that consumers are predominantly stupid doesn't make Acer "right" about anything. All it proves is they have an effective strategy for maximizing profit by selling garbage to idiots.
     
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  2. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    Maybe not an X, but something better than a 4 core i7:D As I said. The size and design is great, but the rest... You know:cool:
     
  3. Johnksss

    Johnksss .

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    You would think so..... <----- This was me totally agreeing with you. :D
     
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  4. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    I will by better to explain in English. Just wait and see :) Better and better day for day, LOL
     
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  5. sticky

    sticky Notebook Consultant

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    Everyone overreacting because the gpu is soldered on? Big f'ing deal.

    This is still a beast even if you can't upgrade it. I haven't upgraded my M18X and don't plan to because I just plan to replace it... with this.

    They got everything right. The dual power supplies means no complaining about the performance or overclocking like we saw with the MSI Titan.

    If you want to easily swap cpu's, motherboards, and videocards go get a desktop.
     
  6. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Sadly, there isn't much you can do with the M18x. Alienware was very thorough and methodical in seeing to that, unfortunately. That's why I don't have those machines any more. They were awesome for as long as they could be. Now that MSI and Clevo have screwed us all by deviating from a usable MXM form factor, it's death warrant is signed, sealed and delivered along with everything else made prior to the release of Pascal.

    So, the Acer Predator is a beast? Really? How so? I'm not seeing anything that says beast except the deceptively fancy wrapper hiding a soldered mess. Mediocre, at best. The BGA CPU is not even a notch above mainstream consumer... because it is mainstream consumer, intentionally dumbed down for under-engineered notebooks to help OEMs make more money selling throw-away filth that cannot be properly serviced, much less upgraded. BGA mean Better Get Another computer... crippled garbage.

    It's not overreacting when a product is incapable of doing what you want it to do and the most critical specs relating to performance and quality are a disappointment. I'd say that's a normal reaction and totally justified. Quite a few of us were eagerly waiting to find out what it had on the inside. Understandably, we weren't happy to learn that it was just another turdbook masquerading as something special. Same experience we had with the MSI Titan. So much goodness rendered meaningless to us by BGA filth. Close, but no cigar.

    Now, to be fair Acer did a lot of cool things with the Predator 21x, but it is a disappointment to many because they totally wussed on on the most important parts. Dual AC adapters has been around for years. That's nothing new. But, it is new for Acer. Kudos to them for doing part of the job well.

    If all you want to do is play games you can do that with a low end quad core running at 3.5GHz and a single 980M or desktop 970. Any 1080, even an emasculated BGA version, is more than enough for playing games. But being able to do a great job of playing games doesn't qualify something as a "beast" by any measure. You can do that with a Playstation or XBOX and those do not qualify as a "beast" machine either.

    There is no meaningful overclocking with BGA anything. Mild or moderate overclocking, sure... but that's not "beast" status. The BGA CPU in the Predator won't be able run any faster than the same crippled CPU when installed in something else.

    But, if this so-called Predator is really what you want then nothing else matters and you don't need to explain that to anyone. By all means, get it and enjoy it (hopefully). People should buy whatever makes them happy. As long as the bar is set low enough, you should be tickled with it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
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  7. jclausius

    jclausius Notebook Virtuoso

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    @sticky you're also not considering the cost of maintaining this so called 'Beast'. CPU good goes bad, what to do? One of the GPUs flakes out, what to do?

    Me: An out of warranty GPU replacement costs how much?
    Acer support: wha, wh, wha, wha, wha. (Charlie Brown for those old enough to remember.)
    Me: Oh, I need to send in the entire unit, replace the working mobo, perfectly fine cpu, and other working GPU, and that costs how much? No, thanks!

    I'm not anti-bga, as bga has its place, in low end, throw away garbage. But if a tech company wants any of my money, on a high end system, it's going to come in socketed form. You mention desktop as alternatives if someone needs to swap components, but my professional requirements strictly limit that possibility. Desktop? Nahh. I'll stick with Clevo socketed laptops for now.

    I'm still hopeful,someone was mistaken on what's inside, because I'm back on board if non-bga. If you do go with a Predator X21, and it is bga, I hope it really does work out for you. But I'll sit this one out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  8. JasonLLD

    JasonLLD Notebook Geek

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    I think being able to run at higher settings at games at better resolution is more meaningful for most people than being able to get higher scores on benchmark suites. So, higher CPU clocks are mostly meaningless because games usually are limited by GPUs than CPUs, especially at higher resolutions. BGA or not BGA is meaningless in that scenario. Since you are benchmark guy, so I can see why you care about socketed CPU more than anything, but only meaningful to you and few other benchers out there.

    Ideally, we would love to have notebooks that you can just as upgrade as easily as desktops but its upgradability is already severely compromised when there is no standard form motherboard form factor for notebooks. Intel changes sockets every 2 years and MXM situation is already in big mess and Nvidia is no longer planning to support it anyways. I would rather get a new laptop every 2 years rather than trying to upgrade in current situation. Socketed CPUs? They are better for overclocking and will get you more points on benches but meaningless for most people unless you care about benchmarks. And people still need to get a new laptop when Intel makes new sockets lol.
     
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  9. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Well, I certainly understand what you're saying and why you think that way. Some people find it easier to surrender and lower their standards. It's hard for people to be passionate about things they either don't understand or do not value. And, nobody can miss something they never had.

    With regard to the excuses for BGA... We don't need NVIDIA to support MXM. They stopped already. MSI and Clevo have already proven NVIDIA's support is not required. All we need is for MSI and Clevo to figure out what the new form factor should look like and stick to it. Hopefully, they can set aside the fact that they are competitors long enough ot agree on a standard that both can live with. If we can get as many years out of the new form factor as we did from the past MXM versions everything will be fine. As far as Intel CPUs go, if you get the best they offer it will generally perform great for at least two generations of upgrades and outperform mainstream crap for 3 or 4 generations. If you go with the low-buck CPUs that isn't true, but enthusiasts don't opt for the cheap stuff. Or, they start out cheap and upgrade to the best when prices drop. In other words, you don't usually need to upgrade the CPU just because there is something newer if you choose wisely. Bottom line here is if the day comes that nothing is left but BGA notebooks, those whose standards transcend the mediocrity of the masses will stop buying notebooks altogether, or when they do buy one it will be something extra cheap, disposable and forgettable.

    This lame BGA crap isn't new. It started out as being the low budget option for cheapskates and bottom-feeders, then it morphed into the crutch to support thin and light ultrabook filth that can't handle much in terms of TDP. Now, because we have allowed them so much liberty to sell garbage, it has become the one-size-fits-all mainstream solution to mass production trashbooks. There is absolutely zero legitimacy to the decision for Acer to use BGA in such a large machine. Considering their brand has always represented the cheapest mainstream junk available, their decision to wimp out on us with BGA in their Predator is more disappointing than it is surprising.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  10. JasonLLD

    JasonLLD Notebook Geek

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    There used be the days when faster CPUs correlated with noticeable performance increase in pretty much every applications. Right now, it is hard to tell the performance difference between 6820hk and 6700k outside of benchmark numbers, and they make no difference in most important applications that matters most and biggest selling point, games. There hasn't been meaningful performance improvement even since Sandy Bridge days and CPUs are becoming less and less important, at least not until we have more applications that takes advantage of more cores than Quads. Even BGA "turds" are good for at least few years and will not become a bottleneck.

    I am more concerned about GPUs than anything actually, because CPUs far more outlive GPUs and lack of GPU upgrade option is far more damaging in terms of laptop longetivity. Because gaming laptops and bought for, yeah, gaming, and GPUs are by far the most important in terms of gaming performance.

    On a bright side, now we are seeing more 660w laptops than ever and I think we are not far away from seeing laptops featuring HEDT platform and Titan level GPUs. I hope those are socketed and features upgradable GPU at least.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
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