8560w GPU upgrade - use empty DVD slot to fit MXM 3.0b (higher spec) video cards

Discussion in 'HP Business Class Notebooks' started by nickelaus, Dec 31, 2014.

  1. nickelaus

    nickelaus Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi all - I'm creating a new thread to consolidate the discussion that has been going on in the 8760w and 8560w owner's lounge threads.

    Basically, we're looking at removing the DVD drive and using this extra space to install a higher-spec MXM 3.0 type b card. Originally, only type A cards were meant to fit in this notebook, but, perhaps with some tweaks, the higher spec cards could be used.

    The comments from the other threads are reposted here for background as we continue this discussion.

    Please post any suggestions or success stories from your efforts to revitalize the graphics capabilities of these capable little (and usually less expensive) workstations.

    -^ Original post in 8760w owner's lounge -^

    Replies to 8760w and 8560w owner's threads:
    OK I see what you and baii are saying. The 17 heatsink has a bigger area to cover those VRMs.


    I wonder if you could combine just the aluminum section only of the 17" heat sink to the 8560w one. Even better if you could get by with just passive heatsinks.


    Hm. .at least there's a lot of room to utilize without a DVD drive..
     

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  2. triturbo

    triturbo Long live 16:10 and MXM-B

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    The mini heat-sinks could do the trick for the VRM, but you need some airflow over them in order to be effective. As for the core, you'd still need extra cooling power - adding new pipes, fan and radiator is obligatory. Otherwise it would thermal throttle and in the end you might get worse performance than MXM-A GPU.
     
  3. nickelaus

    nickelaus Notebook Enthusiast

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    Trying another route - what about simply updating with a Firepro m5100? It is the smaller type 'a' form factor card, and it's TDP is only 50 watts. I wonder if hp bios would accept a newer firepro card like this?
     
  4. triturbo

    triturbo Long live 16:10 and MXM-B

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    Needles to say that you'll lose points of awesomeness :D A quick search, doesn't exactly makes things clear if there's a vBIOS chip or not, but on most pictures there is. It's best if you take a picture of your own GPU and post it here. If we assume that there's a vBIOS chip, it is safe to say that you have great chances running an M5100. I can only find a DELL M5100, which has vBIOS chip, so yeah, it should work. Of course there is always the chance of incompatibility (of some sort, they vary greatly form not running at all to small glitches), but same goes for MXM-B as well, so I think you'll take your chances :) Don't forget to check how the heat-sink sits on the new GPU. Good luck!
     
  5. nickelaus

    nickelaus Notebook Enthusiast

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    This is the current GPU in it now NVIDIA quadro 1000M:

    nvidia_1000m_front.jpg
    nvidia_1000m_back.jpg

    And here's pictures of the M5100 i'm thinking about installing

    firepro_m5100_gpu_front.JPG
    firepro_m5100_gpu_back.JPG

    Regarding the larger cards, I started running out of time on my break so I have to procrastinate upgrading to the larger type b card for now :(
    But I took things apart last night and it looks like there's enough room in there for the larger card: There's one part of the magnesium frame that would have to be filed down as well as desoldering that DVD port. My plan would be to repurpose an existing heatpipe, radiator and possibly small fan assembly and set those up in the empty DVD bay. I would attach the heat pipe to the aluminum heat sink using arctic silver two-part adhesive or jb weld and rig up some way to get things to attach securely.
    8560w_motherboard.jpg
    I think something like this would remove those extra 40 watts or so that the larger cards are putting out. The question is how long will it be until I get impatient for more gpu power / satisfy that tinkering itch to go through with this type b card upgrade :)
     
  6. jobriennbr

    jobriennbr Notebook Enthusiast

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    A couple of additional notes on this topic and replies to nickelaus' pm's. I upgraded an 8760w to a Nvidia GeForce GTX 680M graphics card.

    I believe there is a HP defined white list that restricts which GPU hardware manufacture's can be installed in the 8760w. I believe it to be true for the 8560w but have not confirmed it.

    I believe for these models, there are ONLY two GPU hardware manufacturer's that have been white listed. The vendor ID's for AMD and Nvidia. I doubt ATI would be supported (PCI vendor ID 1002) but not sure. If the vendor ID in the driver's INF file for the AMD FirePro M5950, matches the vendor ID in the ATI card driver INF, then it should work. I just don't believe they will be the same.

    NOTE: There is NO way to "edit" the BIOS hardware white list. It is encrypted with RC4 and signed. I dumped the ROM for the white list. It is code signed. Even if you edited the white list, you would need to re-encrypt it or it would be rejected by the BIOS/UEFI encrypted Boot Loader. HP even signed the Boot Loader with public key so you can't swap the boot loader either. It is like you buying a car and the manufacturer restricting what aftermarket wheels you are allowed to put on the car you just bought.

    I believe the 8560w will NOT support the MXM 3.0b standard, because it never shipped with any MXM 3.0b GPU cards. I may be wrong about this but easy to verify. It shipped with MXM 3.0 "A" cards. This matters for two reasons:
    MXM 3.0a is 82mm x 70mm and the heat sink cooling capacity is ONLY designed for Max Power (heat dissipation) of 55W
    MXM 3.0b is 82mm x 105mm and the heat sink cooling capacity is designed for Max Power (heat dissipation) of 100W

    AMD FirePro M5950 is MXM 3.0a and 35W
    NVIDIA Quadro 2000M MXM 3.0a

    8560w owners will likely need a custom cooling and heat sink solution if they want run a MXM 3.0b GPU card.

    If you attempt this, be sure to test your thermal capacity solution (ie fans/heat sink) by running a graphics benchmarking tool that forces the GPU to 100% while it monitors GPU temps. You should also verify that the BIOS is properly turning on fans when the internal temps exceed defined set points or configure the laptop so the fans run continuously.
     
  7. win32asmguy

    win32asmguy Moderator Moderator

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    This reminds me of the time when I replaced a Quadro FX Go 1400 with a Geforce Go 7800 GTX in a Precision M70.

    It booted and worked, but the card drew too much power unless it was signifcantly underclocked in its high performance state. It was still pretty awesome though because the sheer amount of memory bandwidth increase and extra shaders made quite a few titles playable that were not before. It was unique too, as at the time Clevo (or all other manufacturers for that matter) were only putting high end cards into 17 inch notebooks.

    In that case both card form factors were exactly the same, just the heatsink needed modification. I think a Firepro M5100 would be far more likely to work than a higher end 3.0b card. It is unfortunate we don't have many options for 3.0a cards anymore. The only current ones I can see are the professional cards used in updated Zbook's and Precision's.
     
  8. nickelaus

    nickelaus Notebook Enthusiast

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    Actually, I think ATI and AMD are one and the same companies at this point - it should all say AMD now. They merged a while ago. I may have mistakenly written ATI instead. (the firepro m5950 and m5100 's are both by AMD)
    Thanks for the input, jobriennbr - from what you've said, regarding the supported vendors, I think it may work. I've got a m5100 card ordered from ebay. We'll see how it goes when it gets here.
     
  9. triturbo

    triturbo Long live 16:10 and MXM-B

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    Add a second pipe on the other side of the main pipe, push them as much towards you (HDD bay) as possible, even overlap them (one on top of the other) between the heat-sink and the radiator and fit the biggest fan you can find... shake well for two minutes and enjoy the end result :D I don't really know how efficient the end result would be, but you might even shoot for 29x0XM in there :D

    The M5100 should work and since you have order it, it's only a matter of time. Again don't forget to check how the heat-sink and the M5100 match. They seem fairly different on the right-hand side. Good luck!
     
  10. nickelaus

    nickelaus Notebook Enthusiast

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    Recieved the M5100 card, but after install, the screen is blank.
    Don't know if it's because the firepro m5100 came out of a dell, or that the card I replaced was an nvidia and this firepro isn't whitelisted.
    I am at a loss of what more to try - I've considered flashing the Vbios to change from dell to hp, but I can't find any of the needed files . I can remote in from another machine, but last time I did so, I tried to uninstall nvidia drivers and restart, but it would then only restart into safe mode and I could no longer remote in...
    So I put the nvidia card back in and reinstalled windows and am considering my options. I need an amd card for some of its stereoscopic 3d features, which nvidia does not have. And I need to drive multiple high-res monitors, so I need a higher-end card.
    I did not realize that the dell version of this firepro card would possibly be uncompatible. I searched, but could not find the hp variant of this card (zbook 15 g2 - maybe because its too new).
    Any ideas or wisdom ? ? If I have to, I may have sell this all and upgrade machines, but as a last resort .
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
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