$600 Inspiron 5402 14" - A wolf in a sheep suit

Discussion in 'Dell' started by Not-meee, Dec 11, 2020.

  1. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Geek

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    I completed a nice set# of tweaks on video for both gaming and editing. Was not sure how well it would go until I ran a good bench test. I am comfortable with leaving it as is, though I am curious as to see how much of an improvement it would make to push a wee more. Heat generation and noiselect levels. I was running just below fans highest speed, on some of the offscreen tests.

    As it stands, the Nvidia GTX 1050Ti and GTX 1080Ti are nice competitors, until DirectX is compared. There has been documented findings about the Iris Xe being hindered by DirectX drivers. So it was not a surprise. I figured it would be limited compared to the tweaks AMD users do, and my settings are for best graphics reproduction at no less than 1080 @ 60fps 48bit colour depth. It's a bit more challenging than tweaked 720 @ 60fps 24 bit and lower colour depth.

    I also have a feeling Intel is still catching up on its drivers, as DirectX is a road block. Vulcan and GL seem to be very good considering I am in the 60fps range without skips or hicups.

    To be honest I am not playing the numbers game, since the Ti cards have strong numbers, there are times the Iris Xe is 10% lower or higher, and there are time they are near equals, then there is the 60% differences, on both Intel and Nvidia. So in the real world you probably would not care being video quality settings being the same. Just my two cents. Since I am not a gamer, just saying mid priced laptops can be just as good as higher level laptops costing 2x as much of 1 to 2 years ago.

    To sum it up, if I wanted to prove gaming on a pure Intel chipset, I would have ordered an Acer with soldered 16GB memory and an i7 with Evo Iris tech. Since most bench marks done by reviewers are slanted on AMD and Nvidia tweaked drivers, and really don't Dive into Intel tweaks, let alone make sure the systems they are testing are well setup as equals, outside of video card drivers. Plus there is the Intel driver issue with DirectX.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
  2. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Xe is the first time Intel is taking gaming truly seriously so there are going to be growing pains. That being said, Vulkan runs faster across all GPUs. You can compare it to OpenGL directly with Doom 2016.
     
  3. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Geek

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    Well I was generalizing more than being true comparison in details. Yes Intel is changing how its road map has been with graphics in general. It may not be something to brag about against tried and true dedicated GPU offerings. But it is something to think about with shared memory graphics. I am still in a quandary about how the memory is actually used as the system, bios and gui all contradict each other. I now have 8GB of my 16GB available for graphics, within the Intel GUI. Though it seems that Intel is no longer allocating the memory to be segregated from the system, like it use to. It grabs and gives back when needed. I assume the 8GB is required when multiple displays are used.

    One thing that sets the intel iris gpu above the Nvidia is ALU performance, which is not effected by display characteristics, when all parameters are set by the data throughput not what the display settings are. So, when I am comparing between known offerings, it's a baseline to expect on what the Iris Xe is capable of without need for an i7 with EVO for basic gaming. If you want top gaming experiences with complex game graphics, don't go mid range on laptops. But you can get by very well with new tech mid range laptops. Last year's systems are toast when Rocket Lake rolls out. There is too much good under the hood to ignore. I am impressed with the a ability of cooking my main board without dealing with a lot of fan noise. Even when cooked it is more manageable than my 6 year old HP G6, which is heavier and a more robust build.

    My original thread was to show Tiger Lake laptop specs before the end of 2020, don't mean jack. At least for me, as I have the hardware in front of me.

    One thing I did note with Intel GUI gaming management, it does add some hidden tweaks to help with gpu speed ups. I took them a bit further along, as for it messing with daily real time use... there is no ill effects, with lockups, or hangs between page swapping between video and documents, nor any issues between multitasking applications in and out of background when various tasks are running. As for battery, it's up in the air now, I need a good week to settle with give or take on performance vs loss of battery time.

    One thing I did do was revert to enabling some system services that most disable when not of use. Before doing so, the idle state of the CPU and Disks, was around 2% utilization. Now it's 1% bumping to 2% when Disk is being bumped by the system. I figure like Android, MS has baked some system services to be polled for use, whether or not they are active. It may not bring up an event, but it will cause the system to poll for a loaded service, which may be disabled by the user, which will cause unnecessary CPU usage. Android is easier to notice by logcat, allowing it to run after boot and idie taking notice of how many events populate and what triggers them. Windows hides a lot from event viewer, thus you must use performance logging to identify key areas. Just because you run a clean event log, does not mean you have a clean and effiecent OS.

    Mostly 1% idle time about 1 minute after rebooting into desktop, is pretty darn good, with active apps in task bar and explorer active.
     
  4. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Geek

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    Well, after a few days, I am happy to say I am keeping my tweaks, and for some odd reason boosting them to maximum actually keeps things a wee cooler. I think by tests, there was some bottle necks with Intel's tweaks, which caused a mismatched polling between GPU and CPU. Or something changed since updating. windows update and a firmware update by Dell.

    I may do another update if GFXBench shows any major change once these updates settle down. Seems every week now, I am doing a major update on drivers and firmwares. Now as of recent Windows.

    Here is my current GTXBench numbers. Funny thing, 11th gen i7 and i5 numbers posted last year suck! I really mean suck! Also offscreen numbers don't mean jack, unless your AMD fanboys.

    After reading about OEMs reserving the right to adjust clocking, not all OEMs will have the same results... I have yet to overclock, though why would I for 10% at best numbers. I never seen 10% a worth while investment, just wastes battery time mostly.

    Note, I am running settings for Video editing and PhotoShop editing, at full HD reproduction.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Reciever

    Reciever D! For Dragon!

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    I use both Intel and AMD, they both have their applications and scenarios where either makes sense now. Both "teams" have their unreasonable members which can be put in a box and shuffled off to the side.

    Seems this thread is complete, congrats on the machine, unsubbed
     
  6. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    You keep mentioning AMD fanboys in your posts although there is no one here targeting your setup or anything. Just curious if you have an actual reason for that?
     
  7. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Geek

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    Yep, though I think them drivers and updates have more to do on performance than my low-level tweaks. Its mind boggling on what is thrown out there with numbers. To see real performance they should work more on real time through put with highest level video processing. It makes it so much easier to see how strong a video card is. It sets video cards into segragation between true 1080 @60 capable and limited 1080 or below capable.

    If one is willing, they can see Intel has some specs no different between Evo and Xe, other than CPU being used. Not many specs mind you, just I find old drivers are more limiting than new. As i had some numbers beat out late last years Evo numbers, or match very well, around 1 to 2%. I guess one could assume to get with all the latest updates a 50% increase from late last year's numbers on many areas, with Evo.

    I am surprised not many have had any comments, as to being surprised, or validating my assessments. I expected a bit more from all the hits on my threads. Though I am use to such things like that. All I was trying to show is don't be fooled into the lower specs. Rely more on Intel design, as it would be too costly to emplement lower spec interfaces to limit Intel's capabilities.

    On a side note... you dont need to blow the doors off the competition on mid priced laptops, just make them livable with portablity and performance. My feelings about tiger lake mid range laptops, are a no brainer, in choosing between older CPU options that are cheap on the buy. Too much goodness to pass up, than to live with the limited capabilities of what you have known. I am confident to say the 5402 14" is a budget friendly XPS wannabe. Until a reputable review comes along, you will have to trust me on that. You are not going to find a laptop to be perfect, but it's perfection not that it is perfect, it's that it has its limits are mostly on design expectations, rather than a not so good surprise.

    I have proved that the design is only limited by its newness, and the hardware choosen, and drivers. I have pushed and seen m.2 pci-e hit its limits and shown a 980 Pro can go beyond 6700 on a bench mark, which nobody has shown, even on desktop machines. In fact the benchmarks do not prove maximum speed achieved. If you want that, just use performance counters. 7000 is hit easily on this laptop, it's just what the os does or is doing in background effects the average through put.

    This is the first mid priced laptop I ever owned that did not place a cap on bus architecture. Can't say if any other OEMs follow suit. But it's is more common to see a cap done to allow for higher on battery ratings.

    With newer faster ram coming about, we should see some impressive numbers coming from the next generation laptops both coming from Intel and AMD. Rocket Lake will be the stepping stone for Intel, Tiger Lake was just a taste of what is to come.
     
  8. Not-meee

    Not-meee Notebook Geek

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    Targeting... no, just a friendly warning. Everyone has their jaded comments, just don't want them. I ignore them, and it make me seem lIke I am more arrogant than they are. Just don't like shooting matches.

    Comparing down to the last bit, is not my game. Once the comparing starts, my thread is not mine anymore, let alone what I started with.

    I had one comment about XPS and video card reference, and it was pushing onto comparison. I did not need that, as I made my thread perfectly clear on new mid range laptops and what is given to the public for specs, both oem and by reviewers.

    IMO, I doubt we will see any assessment that is as fair, about the 5402, than I have given. Something I feel reviewers may learn from in making judgment. But then again, they are paid, where I am just giving facts on what I see.

    I have nothing against AMD or gamers, but it seems that's all I see.. sorry if I make myself out to be a troll with esp, but I have no clue to who is who here, if there are any fanboys commenting, take note, I don't see them, and won't comment on what I don't see with my blinkers on.
     
  9. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    The tone and length of your posts say otherwise. Just use your laptop and enjoy it.
     
  10. custom90gt

    custom90gt Doc Mod Super Moderator

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    You constantly talking about AMD fanboys invites more of the back and forth than you just talking about the laptop itself. And my uses before when talking about the XPS were to prove the point that higher end laptops come with different options and that's why they are higher end, not because they have different CPUs...
     
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