** 1070 laptop: "bd prochot" causing cpu throttling to 800MHz and stuttering **

Discussion in 'MSI' started by streetunder, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $ on FILTHY

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    Exactly. And this was from my post Wednesday...
    upload_2018-5-11_19-20-46.png
     
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  2. heliada

    heliada Notebook Evangelist

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    @k1ny man I have to disappoint you. The problem is not drivers at all. I tried on several versions of windows, factory image of the system, clean install of the system from usb, drivers that came with the laptop, drivers on msi website, newest drivers on nvidia website, drivers from nvidia in between... all reinstalled with ddu. BD prochot persisted. It is not software related at all.
    It also persisted through different bios versions and ec firmware versions and their resets to defaults (cmos/ec reset).
    It is also not related to the gpu and cpu itself. GPU was 100% stable with samsung memory (at least I had that one) and I could even overclock it stable over 2000MHz running gpu benchmarks all day long. Never had a single crash.
    CPU was also perfectly stable at 4GHz or even more, running cpu benchmarks all day long, not even breaking a sweat.
    Nothing was wrong at all (in fact it was the most amazing laptop I could imagine aside from horrendous software and drivers) until the total system power draw got high - this points to problems in power delivery, voltage or motherboard in my opinion. In the end it all amounts to: the motherboard was f--ed. MSI agreed with me after I explained to what is happening and how the laptop should behave with a link to perfectly working ge73vr with 7700HQ and gtx 1070 just to convince them it is faulty.

    And nah, the laptops are not sold in 2018 in EU. I bought the last gt72vr 6re with i7-6820HK in the whole country (at least as far as reputable shops go) back in May 2017. I just did not know there were problems as I did not have a game that would use cpu to 100%. I got AC:Origins as a promotion with samsung ssd back in december 2017 and since then I have been back and forth with forums and warranty till NOW.
    Installing the limiting vbios avoids the issue as it lowers the voltage/power draw of the system by a good amount. Many already use it because of the crashing 1.0 cards so they will never know of bd prochot.
    PS. the gt72 or gt72s both are listed as using hybrid power, while all gt72vr's with bd prochot problem CANNOT use it, at all due to missing EC values. Clearly something is wrong and since reflashing EC does not solve it, it means the EC is probably uncapable of detecting something on the motherboard and it all goes to hell.
    The only solution is to: 1. replace motherboard with working one and hope it stays working
    2. solder a working part on the motherboard
    3. smash it to 1000 pieces and get a PC.

    There is no software fix and if the laptop still throttles to base clock, that likely means the bd prochot was just disabled, as that is the exact result I got when disabling it in throttlestop.
     
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  3. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Prophet

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    100% correct.
    Properly working MSI laptops ever since GT60 will have EC RAM register value "9E" in register location C5, and EC RAM register value "C0" or "C1" in EC RAM Register C6. C0 means the system is idle and C1 means some sort of load is requested somewhere.

    if the value in EC RAM register C6 changes to 40 or 41 (same thing, idle or load), it means that HYBRID POWER is DISABLED for some reason and the system *WILL NOT* draw power from the battery at heavy load. This will cause system enforced throttling to cut power to the CPU if a certain "power threshold" is bypassed. That power threshold is, funny enough, the exact point where the system would "begin" to start using battery power. Things that can make EC register C6 be 40 / 41 are: Battery is unplugged, or battery is below 30%, or someone for some reason decides to manually input a value in EC RAM register C5 to a value of 80 or below. These throttling flags being on or off exist due to certain "checks" in the EC firmware, that I BELIEVE are stored in text strings (why? i don't know. Maybe because the unlocked EC, which NO ONE HAS, has them set to 0) in the direct EC firmware file under a "Throttle Trip" flag, as so:

    CPU_CrtT = 1.CPU_ThtlT = 1.CPU_ThtlT = 0.SYS_CrtT = 1.SYS_ThtlT = 1.SYS_ThtlT = 0

    The 1's and 0's mean certain conditions can turn throttle on or off. The CrtT stands for Current Trip, meaning the system will POWER OFF if a certain hardwired # of amps is drawn by the CPU or system combined. This only affects people trying to pull too much amps through the CPU trying to achieve super high overclocks. Like someone in this thread (guess who).

    Since the very old GT60 laptop even has the EC values 9E and C0 in registers C5 and C6, the fact that the affected Gt72VR's have "00" and "00" there is troubling. Because having hybrid power disabled by having EC Register C6 set to 40 does NOT cause BD prochot on any of the other systems. It causes POWER LIMIT throttling of the CPU to 45W, then 25W (and then if necessary, to 800 mhz), which you might "think" is the same thing, but it isn't, because at least on those systems, you can "find a way" to turn ON hybrid power again (there's a way to force hybrid power on even if the battery is disconnected, by tricking the EC but this doesn't work at all on @heliada 's old system. The EC Trick would 'force' EC Register C6 to be C0/C1 even if the battery is disconnected. But this is impossible with C5 not even being used
     
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  4. heliada

    heliada Notebook Evangelist

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    I tested the new laptop gt75 8rg thoroughly on stock settings. The noise is bad, the temps are awful (up to 90 degrees on cpu and 85 on gpu with stress testing both at the same time - room temp of 23 or 24... after the stress test it feels more like 27 haha, it's a mini heater).... but the performance is actually up to par with a desktop. According to HWinfo, the gpu can pull up to 217W and CPU up to 95W or so. Now don't ask me how is all that powered through the poor 330W brick that is meanwhile getting very hot under my desk. I noticed no throttling even when benchmarking cpu+gpu at the same time.
    I can assure everyone that battery does in fact drain slowly while gaming so whatever msi says the gt72vr was most certainly supposed to do the same. Next step: resolve some temperature problems.
     
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  5. Pedro69

    Pedro69 Notebook Evangelist

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    90°C on cpu:eek: You need undervolt that hot dog...

    Since you cant overclock on 8750H you should get a good undervolt on it.
     
  6. heliada

    heliada Notebook Evangelist

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    Actually I can overclock it up to 4.1ghz on all cores but won't bother with these temps. I did some voltage tweaking already and it's now 81 degrees max. Still need to repaste though :)
     
  7. Pedro69

    Pedro69 Notebook Evangelist

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    8750H not is locked?
     
  8. heliada

    heliada Notebook Evangelist

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    It is partially unlocked with max multiplier set to x41 (which means you can set it manually anywhere from 800MHz to 4.1GHz on all cores). It will not go beyond 4.1GHz but I think it is more than enough.
    By default it is already up to 3.9GHz on all 6 cores so imho the difference of 200MHz is not worth the tinkering.
     
  9. Pedro69

    Pedro69 Notebook Evangelist

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    Well i think that will buy a laptop like you...i though that only 8850H was partially unlocked...since the machine will be only for gaming mostly, 8750H will do a good job in that case. Any throttling?
     
  10. heliada

    heliada Notebook Evangelist

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    There is no throttling at all. Even running throttlestop benchmark and unigine heaven at the same time. CPU is dead set at 3.9GHz, GPU never drops below 1800 MHz. The battery does discharge when playing intensive games though. It needs repasting etc. I would not recommend to pay full price for it if you can live with a desktop at all - you will save several hundred euro and have a lot cooler and a whole lot less loud experience.
    The gt75 is louder than the gt72vr by a LOT (maybe because the vents on the sides let all the noise reach your ears better). If I was offered money back I would get a pc, but I wasn't.
     
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