Has anybody actually tried attaching a sata drive in the optical drive caddy yet? Does it need a pata to sata converter as well? The caddy I have bought is a sata caddy (not delivered yet) and it would seem like the way to go as I have no real use for the optical drive.
Base unit tested: u7600-1.2Ghz 2GB 80GB/4200rpm 2510P. Can compare against newer tech, including a SL9400 2530P here. Bootup is faster with Win7 and is overall a pleasure to use. 2510P u7600@1.6Ghz PerformanceTest outperforms a SU7300-1.3 Acer 1810T and a SU9400-1.4 Lenovo X301, losing out only to the X301's dual-channel X4500 3D graphics.
U7600@1.2 [Stock] 1.8" 80GB ZIF HDD
Processor: 3.7
Memory: 4.2
Graphics: 2.4
Gaming Graphics: 4.9
Primary Hard Disk: 3.7 screenshot^1
^1 - used Win7 RC1 for the benchmark with inaccurate gaming graphics. Other results are RTM.
^2 - Modded X3100 driver increased desktop graphics score by 10% as described here
^3 - losdrivare duplicated these results with the PATA 160GB HM160HC obtaining a 5.5 disk score here
WARNING: FSB Overclocking means higher operating temperature. Observe decent cooling precautions. I take no responsibility for any damage. User beware.
INFO: Overclocking
setfsb now support 2510P overclocking
Abo has added the 2510P's ICS 9LPRS355BGLF PLL to his setfsb software. Below is a screenshot with a 5% overclock of the FSB and PCI-E clocks on a 1.2Ghz u7600 2510P. Note the bug where the setfsb command has no effect in increasing the FSB after the 2510P has been in a prolonged standby or hibernate.
1: 2510P with 5% FSB and pci-e overclock
2: Error notification when PLL is in a frozen state after a prolonged hibernate or standby. A quick standby followed by resume will unfreeze the PLL and allow the FSB/pci-e clocks to be set *without* the need for a shutdown.
setfsb opens up a lot more performance tweak options. The u7600 is overclocked from 1.2Ghz to 1.4Ghz here. 1.5Ghz is a sweet spot with the standard voltages and RAM normal 266Mhz memory timings as set during bootup. Setting CAS=5 ram timings provides an extra level stability. The HP supplied RAM is DDR2-667 so it does support 333Mhz.
Some NBR users have requested info on how Abo got around the 2510P's 9LPRS355BGLF PLL bootup TME mode *without* needed a pinmod. This image shows the before and after setfsb overclocking PLL registers values.
Overclocking with Linux
See INFO: Overclocking the 2510P in Linux for detailed instructions. Another way is to boot to WinXP/Win7 running setfsb to overclock then upon rebooted (not shutdown) into Linux, the overclocked PLL settings remain. 'dmesg' shows per cpu bogomips@1.2Ghz=2394, bogomips@1.5Ghz=3001 (overclocked). Gnome's CPU Frequency monitor incorrectly shows the speed at 1.2Ghz.
CPU temperature
If overclocking, consider observing CPU temps to ensure operation stays as far as possible below Tjmax of 100C using tools like HWMonitor or Everest. Better removal of heat can be achieved by application of some decent Artic Silver thermal paste between the CPU/northbridge and the heatsink or clearning/blowing out any dust or gunk accumulation blocking the little fan under the system. HP heat pads also probably deteriote over time, confirmed also by a 2530P owner who saw maintenance work done on his system. The fan/airway is easy to block with your knee if sitting on your lap since it's in the back right corner.
Memset, spdtool and thaipoon burner - alter RAM timings
Memset cannot alter the primary timing, CAS latency, but Thaiphoon burner or spdtool can by writing timing data to the RAM's eeprom. If overclocking over the 1.5Ghz range, then consider modding RAM eeprom to store CAS latency=5 in the 266Mhz timing table. This is the latency used by RAM operating at 333Mhz. Detailed instructions for power users are here. NOTE: Observe tools' warnings to prevent RAM damage.
Hardware Overclocking (Advanced)
The 9LPRS355.pdf datasheet shows that a logic of 1 on the PLL FSLB pin would change the u7xxx CPU FSB to 166Mhz.
Easiest to do by lifting the resistor attached to pin 57 and then running a small patch wire to a 3.3V logic point (3.3V) patch, eg: FSLa pin 10, to have hardware overclock to 166Mhz FSB. A successful implementation of this done by tweakertje here. PLL mod, 200mhz to 266mhz help please thread has more hardware overclocking info.
I tried the caddy from notebook elite from ebay.
I tried it on a HP NC2400 which is the same as the 2510p but one generation older with diferent chipsets.
I installed a seagate momentus 3 - 80GB 2.5" and it didnīt recognized the HD.
I tried installing XP with no sucess and the parttion manager i usually use didnīt recognize the HD also...
So for NC2400 users itīs useless!!
PLEASE, if you hve any sucess with the caddy on the 2510p please let us know something, ok?!?
At least iīm interested because i would sell my NC2400 to buy a 2510p if i could intall a 2.5" HD on it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesselcolsen
Has anybody actually tried attaching a sata drive in the optical drive caddy yet? Does it need a pata to sata converter as well? The caddy I have bought is a sata caddy (not delivered yet) and it would seem like the way to go as I have no real use for the optical drive.
Advanced modding: Below is technical detail for advanced modders wanting to try to access the native ICH8M sata I/O pins that HP have not provided a connector for. Most 'normal' users can skip this.
12/23/09 UPDATE: Summary: would need a dead 2510P systemboard and BGA gun to remove the ICH8M chip to probe sata I/O pins against nearby vias to be able to find where to connect the sata lines.
The unused socket next to the BIOS eeprom 3 important pins connected to the bios on it to do in-chip bios re-flashing: SI, SO, SCK. The bios chip has 8 pins all up, the unused connector has 24 pins, so still possible to have sata pins. It's still possible to proceed even if the 24-pin unused connector doesn't have sata pins. How?
- find the ICH8M SATA I/O lines. ->>Accessing BGA Pins<<- is the KEY information on how this could possibly be done. The SATA I/O pins are right on the outer edge of the ICH8M I/O chip. Only problem is HP have put a red wax around and under the outer edge so can't poke the enamel wire through.
- flash the 6710b bios to the system. This bios enabled the sata controller AND likely provides bootup to the sata drive. For whatever reason, the 6710p bios does not boot the 2510P's master OR slave PATA drives (1.8", 2.5" in optical bay OR optical drive).
The way to flash the 6710b bios to the 2510P is by copying the 6710p bios.rom file as 68MSP.bin on a floppy drive, holding WIN+B on bootup to do an emergency flash recover. The bios update will prompt to do two passes to complete it. DO NOT DO TWO PASSES(!!). If you do, then likely can't reverse the process back to the original 2510P bios. Reverse by copying the 2510P bios.rom to floppy as 68DDU.bin and repeating.
The info below is legacy from the first attempt, which is still left intact for educational purposes. I am not attempting this as am quite happy with the Runcore ProIV ZIF SSD's performance.
If anyone else DOES find the sata I/O vias that can be tapped, please share on here.
Theory: enabling and connecting to the ICH8M native SATA port
Step 1: Enabling the native SATA controller using baredit
Quick step-by-step visual instructions are shown below right. Can skip reading how/why this was done and go Step 2. Interested readers can see ICH8-M datasheet extract in italics below tells us:
The SATA1 controller is enabled/disabled via the "FD-Function Disable Register". When a function is disabled, software must not attempt to re-enable it. A disabled function can only be re-enabled by a platform reset.
FD—Function Disable Register
Offset Address: 3418–341Bh Attribute: R/W, RO
Default Value: See bit description Size: 32-bit
BIT 2: Serial ATA Disable 1 (SAD1) — R/W. Default is 0.
0 = The SATA controller #1 (D31:F2) is enabled.
1 = The SATA controller #1 (D31:F2) is disabled.
This block is mapped into memory space, using register RCBA of the PCI-to-LPC bridge:
LPC Interface PCI Register Address Map (LPC I/F—D31:F0)
Offset / Mnemonic / Register Name / Default / Type
F0h–F3h / RCBA /Root Complex Base Address / 00000000h / R/W
Accesses in this space must be limited to 32-(DW) bit quantities. Burst accesses are not allowed.
Using BarEDIT->Configuration Space set to Bus.0 Dev 31 Fct 0, we find the Base Address Register at 0F0 contains the string "FED90001". This tells us what the memory space is to for the FD-Function Disable Register used to enable/disable the SATA controller.
So we add 3418 to FED90001 and find the address FED93418. Bit 2 at this address has a 1 by default (disable SATA controller). Changing it to 0 then enables the SATA controller and XP will now have a new device 2828h Non-AHCI mode SATA controller appear that will automatically load drivers and appear as in the screenshot above.
To do this prior to OS boot, would require either a DOS based bootdisk with peritool to do the memory write 'pt MEM write 4 0xFED93418 0x33c0001', or using the grub2 bootloader add an entry against the OS item:
write_dword 0xFED93418 0x33c0001
Step 2: Enabling the native SATA controller using bios instead of baredit
Step 1 proves the SATA controller exists and can be enabled. The Enable Native Sata option is not available on F.01-F.07 (earlier bios) as confirmed by another 2510P user. Here's F.0A hwdirect bios dump (fff00000, size=100000) (1MB), obtained by installing and opening hwdirect, go to memory dump. Enter fff00000 without "h" and size 100000 without "h", press dump. Right click into window, select all, right click again, copy. Paste as new file into winhex. (Open winhex and press Shift + insert key) Make sure ASCII-hex is selected. Saved file and uploaded
Biosconfigutility - another useful utility
I've also discovered a tool called biosconfigutility.exe that comes with SSM (from HP's website). It can save the BIOS config, "biosconfigutility /getconfig:bios.txt", shows hidden options in the bios.txt output file such as "SATA Native Mode, then can load them again using "biosconfigutility /setconfig:bios.txt" which unfortunately results in the error SETTING changeStatus="fail" name="SATA Native Mode". Any 2510P owners with F.07 willing to try this? I'd love to just get the NVRAM dump from a F.07 system with this enabled as often bios simply switches NVRAM bits on and off.
Step 3: Physically connecting to a SATA port - where is the port?
We have a ICH8M SATA controller with 3 SATA ports that can be enabled successfully using step 1 above. Now where are the 4 SATA I/O lines per port to connect a drive to?
What is the 24-pin unused connector in the 1.8" drive bay?
Below is the 1.8" drive bay of the 2510p compared against the newer SATA sockets of 2730P and 2530P and with it's architecturally similar sibling, the 2710P. Is that a SATA unused connector?
1. 2510P 1.8" drive bay
2. Systemboard sockets for 2510P, 2730P and 2530P, the latter two are SATA sockets
3. The 2730P 24-pin microSATA connector HP P/N 504519-001 obtained here
4. Unused and unlabelled 24-pin socket on HP 2710P. Looks exactly like the SATA socket in the 2730P, as in 2.
Systemboards can be viewed at HP's Media Services Libary
Compared: 2510P 1.8" undisclosed connector against 2730 1.8" SATA cable
The 2730P's 1.8" SATA cable socket end does not appear compatible with the undisclosed socket in the 2510P. Rather the suggestion here is to compare pins. Interestingly, the 2510P's 24-pin socket may match the 2730P 24-pin sata cable as obtained from here. The 2710P's undisclosed 24-pin socket shown earlier looks like an *exact* match for the 2730P SATA cable. The 2510P and 2710P are architecturally quite similar. The 2730P microSATA end matched to the SATA pinout. Saying this, the 24-pin undocumented and unused socket could just as easily be a plug used by HP technicians for diagnostics. It is right next to the bios chip so maybe it's for bios programming?
Tracing the SATA I/O pins from the southbridge chip instead
If the 2730P socket compared against the 2510P provides vague information, then can skip that and go straight to relevant pins. This would require more technical expertise. If have a close view of the systemboard, could you please take closeup photo of the southbridge chip (front and back)? It would have Intel 82801HUB or 82801xxx printed on it, like shown shown from a Macbook Air.. with the test points around it documented here.
Right: SATA I/O pins of interest marked in red,green and blue. From ICH8M datasheet
A close up would help identify if there may be SATA I/O pin test points accessible. Of course if someone has a faulty systemboard, can remove the BGA southbridge chip and can trace out the SATA I/O pins to accessible points on the systemboard, it would be even better. A continuity test from the southbridge to the 24-pin unused socket in the 1.8" bay would be the first thing I'd be trying, comparing against the 3 sets of SATA port pins marked in red, green and blue above right. OR if someone REALLY knowledgable on what SATA signals looks like, could they have a poke around at the unused 24-pin socket in the 1.8" drive bay to identify if it has the SATA pins in there?
Step 4: Connecting the 1.8" SATA SSD/HDD or even netbook-type pci-e SATA SSD
If the SATA I/O pins corresponding to the port was identified, it could be as simple as running 4 SATA wires to one of those inexpensive 4mm runcore SATA SSD (designed for eee PCs..) pinout as per SATA pins of asus proprietory flash_con plus the 3.3V and GND to run it. It could sit somewhere in the chassis where there is room (eg: spare pci-e slot, pc-card slot), so the 1.8" PATA drive may be able to stay where it is That would be sensational! Or of course, could substitute the 1.8" PATA drive with a 1.8" SATA SSD like Intel X18-M or a good value ebay 1.8" Samsung SATA SSD.
Right: 4 SATA I/O lines plus 3.3V and GND attached to a Samsung SSD, a working setup, as found in the macbook air forum.
SUMMARY: how to get the unknown connector working as a SATA connector, if it is one
The simplest way to see if the 2510P unused connector is an undisclosed SATA connector by comparing against the 2730P SATA cable would go something like this:
compare 2730P SATA connector against what we know about that 2510P plug shown above to see if the GND/3.3V pins match, then assume the rest of the pinouts match. Worth performing your own pin mapping of the 2510P socket with a multimeter doing continuity tests of pin against pin to see if they are connected, the pins against chassis (GND) and pin against a known 3.3V point to double-check my results.
if 2730P and 2510P socket pinouts map out the same then solder the 6 require leads onto the 24-pin end of the 2730P 1.8" cable. The leads ended with tiny sockets or clips that can attach to individual matching pins in the 2510P plug. Can see how the macbookair forum member did something similar here.
restarted 2510P * finger's crossed don't damage the systemboard or attached SATA device *
2510P SATA controller using baredit as explained here. See if the SATA SSD is recognised and installed.
if works - celebrate by sharing the news. Only remaining item then is making an easy 2510P-plug to microsata lead or 2510P-plug to SATA pci-e SSD that other 2510P users could duplicate easily.
nando4, can you please benchmark the trnasfer rates from the hard drive in the optical bay? My 8710w only yields 15MB/s transfer rates from the same interface.
I am awaiting benchmarks before I consider this as a solution. Your comment is the second I've seen referring to poor performance with a SATA caddy (I presume your's is a SATA one?). For this reason my personal leanings are towards the PATA caddy with a fast 2.5" PATA drive, like the 160BG Samsung HM160JC or 250GB WD2500BEV. Those drives give very good performance and the Samsung has very low power consumption, lower than the lowest SATA drives. A workable solution if using 2.5" HDD that is limited to 250GB.
Can you identify the caddy you are using and what is the SATA-to-PATA bridge chip on it? Quite a few different one's exist Eg: Marvell, Sunplus, J-micron as seen here? The caddy would internally use something similar to this, with a different sata connector on it.
The closest thing to benchmarks I've seen is this. Though this is the second post I've seen claiming low transfer rates with a SATA caddy.. I'll see if I can find the other post on here.
From what I can make out the 8710W has a multibayII connector for the optical drive. So you have an SATA alternative to the EBAY caddy that you can buy right now (if it is 12.7mm) here. 2510P users do not. 2510P user's only option is the notebookelite (ebay) SATA product to replace their 9.5mm JAE 50 ended optical drives. That is until newmodeus release their's next month using a bridge chip "other than Marvell", as quoted by my email enquiries and will have a PATA offering as well.
So if you are using the ebay product, there are two workarounds. Enquiring/purchasing the newmodeus product, or using a PATA multibayII caddy or 2nd Hard Drive caddy for HP COMPAQ /NC6000 NX5000 and a PATA drive. The PATA caddy uses the native interface simply rewiring the interface connector, as can be seen by this.
The 8710w does not have a MultiBayII connector (the optical drive is fixed). It requires the JAE50 connector.
You're saying the possible bottleneck could be the PATA-SATA bridge and that a PATA-PATA version of the caddy could work better? I'm curious to know what HP's standard MultiBayII hard disk transfer rates are because the bottleneck may also be due to the own interface on the motherboard.
The HP MultibayII drive option I've seen on EBAY are 80GB PATA drives.
The optical bay systemboard JAE 50 connector is simply a secondary PATA IDE port. A SATA-PATA caddy needs a bridge chip to convert from one interface to the other. A PATA-PATA caddy does nothing other than rewire from 40-pin IDE to JAE50. So given there are fast PATA drives doing ~60MB/s, I would *assume* a PATA solution would likely see a better result than your 15mb/s.
I'd be double checking things like UDMA-2 is enabled against the device too. HP might be able to advise on what sort of performance their PATA caddy would give. Otherwise, perhaps ask newmodeus for advice. Better results with the SATA device would be seen if you too could identify a hidden native SATA port connector on the systemboard and wire it directly to your drive instead, as described above for the HP 2510P. ICH8-M provides 3 SATA ports.. 8710W also has an unused 24-pin socket on the systemboard as can be seen at the HP Media Services Library which *speculation mode on* could have SATA I/O pins on it. Then again, that socket could be used for diagnostic purposes as well.
There is one further variable here. What is the chipset that you are using? ICH8-M on a 2510P has a PATA controller onboard provided with it's southbridge. Google tells me 8710W uses PM965, so it should also be using ICH8-M. I know that Intel was planning to ditch the PATA interface and if so, then the native ICH controller is SATA and HP would have had to incorporate a SATA-PATA bridge on the systemboard to run legacy PATA devices like optical drives.
Oh.. can you also identify the SATA-to-PATA bridge chip on your caddy? It will be the biggest chip on there.. Marvell, Sunplus, Acard, Jmicron. newmodeus were tight-lipped about what they are using in their up coming 9.5mm caddy.
The 8710w uses the ICH8-M chipset.
The SATA-to-PATA bridge chip on the caddy doesn't seem to have a brand (it's all blacked out).
INFO: Performance of SATA SSD in a 2nd drive caddy [Lenovo Ultrabay PATA]
Below is CrystalDIskMark benchmarks comparing performance of a SATA Mtron SLC 3500 100/100 SSD using a SATA-to-PATA bridge adapter versus a native SATA port on a Thinkpad T60 using a ICH7M ATA100/UDMA5 optical drive interface. Original posting is here.
Left of colon: SATA-to-PATA ultrabay optical bay caddy
Right of colon: native SATA interface
The bridge chip does degrade read performance by 12%. That would be OK by me. I am curiously awaiting benchmarks of the equivalent HP 2510P SATA 2nd drive caddy and SATA HDD/SSD. Anyone??
I've received today the notebookelite sata caddy and can confirm it's not working in the 2510p ...
I've made the test with two different hard drives with same results (Toshiba and Samsung).
The second harddrive is neither detected by BIOS or Windows
Sometimes for the Toshiba, I've got a fixed red LED on the caddy waiting long seconds for BIOS to boot, ending with a "Disk 0 startup error" anyway.
Seems either the SATA bridge has some issues or that BIOS is locked to detect only optical drive ?
Anyway, I've already switched my internal 1.8" harddisk to a 5400 rpm Samsung HS122JC and fired up a 4GB RAM module into my 2510p
This combination gives me quite satisfactory results under Vista
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Re: 2510p - SATA SDD/HDD & CPU upgrades?
That would be sensational! Or of course, could substitute the 1.8" PATA drive with a 1.8" SATA SSD like Intel X18-M or a good value 
