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  1. #1881
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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    Quote Originally Posted by xanthian View Post
    Explain yourself. What twisted logic did you conjure to arrive at this conclusion?

    No offence, but I'm starting to lose a little patience in the collective stupidity that seems to be snowballing from one person's misinformation being taken as gospel.
    Non taken, just don't get angry without need.

    Quote Originally Posted by xanthian View Post
    If you have two haswell chips, running at the same mhz and the same voltage, doing the same work, they will consume the same amount of electricity, which is incidentally where all of the heat comes from..
    True. But correct me: TDP is the thermal capacity of the chip. So I would assume a higher TDP would mean that the chip actually has better thermal dissipation. So, I believe the 4700, 4800 and 4900 would handle the heat more efficiently than the 4702 and thus operate at a lower temp at the same clocks (if voltage doesn't change which I don't know).

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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    Keep in mind that the lower TDP 4702 chip (in a test scenario where it runs on the same Mhz as a 7400) does the same, but on less voltage...
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  3. #1883
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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    Quote Originally Posted by cybernick01 View Post
    Non taken, just don't get angry without need.



    True. But correct me: TDP is the thermal capacity of the chip. So I would assume a higher TDP would mean that the chip actually has better thermal dissipation. So, I believe the 4700, 4800 and 4900 would handle the heat more efficiently than the 4702 and thus operate at a lower temp at the same clocks (if voltage doesn't change which I don't know).
    This seems to be the case with the Ivy Bridge chips too. I tried TWO i7-3610QM chips in my Sager NP9150 and an i7-3740QM and even despite being the same TDP, the 3740QM runs cooler at idle and cooler at peak load (if I fix it at same max MHz as 3610QM). This is anecdotal evidence of course and a small sample size, but the thought seems to be mirrored by others too.

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  4. #1884
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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    Intel does bin the chips so on average the higher speed chips are less leaky and are better samples.
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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    Quote Originally Posted by cybernick01 View Post
    correct me: TDP is the thermal capacity of the chip. So I would assume a higher TDP would mean that the chip actually has better thermal dissipation.
    No, it means that the chip can consume/dissipate more, thus is made for more capable (regarding heat dissipation) chassis.

    BUT meaker's statement is also generally true:
    "higher speed chips are less leaky and are better samples"

    Which eventually means that 4900 will often run cooler than 4700 when ran at the same speed/voltage.

    BUT prema's statement is also true
    4702 chips are picked from the best CPUs which are able to run @ same clock, using a lower voltage

    Feel the headache ?

  6. #1886
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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    So long story short, you're saying that for a given amount of work, the 4702 ("probably"?) will produce less heat because it ships undervolted, and is marketed as lower-power because these chips are selected for undervolt-tolerance instead of higher-load tolerance? That makes sense, and is part of why I was leaning towards the 4702 -- I'd rather have a cooler, slightly slower system, given the option.

  7. #1887
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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
    So long story short, you're saying that for a given amount of work, the 4702 ("probably"?) will produce less heat because it ships undervolted, and is marketed as lower-power because these chips are selected for undervolt-tolerance instead of higher-load tolerance? That makes sense, and is part of why I was leaning towards the 4702 -- I'd rather have a cooler, slightly slower system, given the option.
    That's pretty much how I understood it too. 'Cherry picking' a CPU would either be selecting a processor that can handle high frequencies but not deviate much from the nominal voltage, or one that can be run below the nominal voltage at a respectable frequency without becoming unstable.

    If we can control the CPU frequency and voltage within the BIOS or XTU on this notebook, then that's great, but I'm with the group that prefer to have the system run in that manner without any tinkering.
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  8. #1888
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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meaker View Post
    Intel does bin the chips so on average the higher speed chips are less leaky and are better samples.
    I've heard that a few times. It seems that the higher clocked chips are the more stable ones. I wouldn't be so sure that it can make a noticeable temperature difference though..

    Quote Originally Posted by Prema View Post
    Keep in mind that the lower TDP 4702 chip (in a test scenario where it runs on the same Mhz as a 7400) does the same, but on less voltage...
    I would also suppose that a 4700 will probably be able to match any clock/volts configs that a 4702 is capable of. I think the TDP is more important.

    Quote Originally Posted by lastnikita View Post
    No, it means that the chip can consume/dissipate more, thus is made for more capable (regarding heat dissipation) chassis.
    I know this is not the place to discuss this, but if that's true then I don't understand what TDP is (anyone got a link or something?).
    As I see it, with both chips at the same state:
    If higher TDP can consume/dissipate more, then it is cooler, because the absolute max temp would be the same. If it isn't the same, then the higher TDP would be higher.
    So in either case, higher TDP is always the best choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by lastnikita View Post
    Feel the headache ?
    Definitely.
    Does anyone have a link with technical specs?

  9. #1889
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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    Quote Originally Posted by xanthian View Post
    Explain yourself. What twisted logic did you conjure to arrive at this conclusion?
    Going one step further, if you have an i5 or i7 of any gen to play with on you, right now, grab a copy of throttlestop, and try manually playing with the multiplier while running prime95, and see how that affects your temperatures.

    This is all the first hand experience you need to answer your own questions instead of trying to apply dollops of salt to other people's or talking about trial and error or risky hacks.

    Edit: Because I missed mentioning it, Throttlestop even comes with a wattage readout for the cpu, if you wanna know what TDP you're hitting. You can easily make a 4700 consume less energy/create less heat than a stock 4702 (37 watts) purely by clicking the down arrow next to 'Set Multiplier' and reading your wattage under prime95 as a worst case scenario.
    Thanks for explaining that.. Really appreciate it, but do you know if it's possible to throttle it dynamically based on the temps?? Gave it crack on my current laptop, seemed to work, although again quite a few settings in there and i'm not sure i want to spend my time tinkering around...

    That said leaning with the 4702, purely because the only CPU intensive stuff I will do will be gaming..and in that space it might be more helpful to have a slightly automatically throttled CPU to give more headroom for the GPU.

    The rest of my work is pretty light on.. Web / terminal based... So not sure I'll ever fully be able to appreciate the benefits of a higher locked multiplier on CPU..
    I would love to see some gaming benchmarks on this lappy with the different CPU's..

  10. #1890
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    Default Re: W230ST - The 13" We've been waiting for!?

    We finally got the specs of the 900p screen (thanks to XNOTE.pl) : CPT CLAA133UA 05 (CPT 17E1)
    Tough to find any reviews or tests though
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