Disappointment: Intel fails the potential of Clevo P270WM...

[ntrain96]

My bad, was thinking about the P180HM. No idea if there will be a P180EM, but Im kind of hoping there will be...



Yes, it really is a better machine to spend my cash on. However, when I see all the glossy finish on it, I feel shivers creeping all over me. Nightmares of fingerprints and scratches are pouring into my mind.

How does the finish fare in your machine? Any complaints so far?

Well fingerprints come off quickly with a cloth, and scratches come out instantly if you ever get em with Novus 2. I use novus 2 to repair deep scratches on my acrylic saltwater tanks, works just as well on the surface of the P180hm and cost 5 bucks for a bottle that will last you years.

[jclausius]

One other point to make on this one.

Do you really believe Haswell will be released mid-year 2013? When has Intel hit a date when AMD has not been pushing them? Why would Intel release the IVB-E chips and then turn around and release Haswell based chips within weeks?

My best guess is, unless AMD is working on some top secret CPU no one knows about, you'll see Haswell late Q4 '13 or slipping into 2014. Only time will tell.

[jaug1337]

Also, I'd blame Intel for not providing a special chipset with IGP+SLI/CF+Sandy-E. Such chipset would be a great choice for the P270WM.

Makes the question what the hell Intel really thinks about.. giving good performance or delivering decent performance for the sake of better business.. Annoys me so badly..

[b0b1man]

In terms of look and colour it will look like a hybrid of P150HM and W170HR. Grayish look but design similar to W170HR.

Thanks for the info! Since you are a notebook retailer, you must have seen it. Hope the NDA lifts soon and we can all see it!

Why would you need optimus on a DTR? The battery is not meant for battery life. It's basically a UPS. In terms of old tech, the i7-990x is still crazy fast. It will handle any games for probably a couple more years. SB-E will be much the same case.
As Aikimox said, PCI-E 3.0 is a complete waste. No single GPU card can max out 2.0's bandwidth and none probably will for a while.
Intel didn't build the SB-E chips for laptops. Plain and simple. This is why there is no IGP.
Lastly, AMD is phasing out the 6990m as the 7k series are right around the corner. Wait a little while longer and I'm sure they will offer X-fire 7970m's.
You may see this as a complete waste of money, but others may not.
Just my 2 cents.

Yes, all the current Core family processors are good for gaming. Especially the Extreme series on all 3 families. But that was not my point. I just don't like it when intel puts old components when Ivy Bridge is already here and demands so high prices.

I mean, come on. Desktop processors should come out BEFORE mobile ones do, right? And Extreme series CPU's should be the first ones to arrive, after them the trimmed down versions.

What we have here is Intel is offering their Extreme series long after the Sandy Bridge launch (around 10 months after the initial launch, not sure), now we have mobile Ivy Bridge coming in 2 weeks and the DESKTOP Ivy from the Extreme segment are coming in June-July 2013 at the earliest!

Right now, they offer 130W CPU's using 32nm for the server/enthusiast segment. I really dont get why. Maybe its (again) about selling the belated warehouse items they have left in-stock. Its always about money, customers go second.

P.S:

In terms of look and colour it will look like a hybrid of P150HM and W170HR. Grayish look but design similar to W170HR.

Thanks for the info! Since you are a notebook retailer, you must have seen it. Hope the NDA lifts soon and we can all see it!

Intel didn't build the SB-E chips for laptops. Plain and simple. This is why there is no IGP.

Then why is it that mainstream Sandy Bridge CPU's all have IGP's, be it mobile or the desktop variants? Intel HD3000, aint it right? Yes, the SB-E is for desktops. But desktop mainstream Sandys have IGPs. All of them. Even Turbo Boost on the IGP. And here is the so called "Extreme" series that has....nothing. Goodbye optimus on that one.

[jaybee83]

well u said it urself: SB MAINSTREAM cpus have IGP, whereas the EXTREME cpus (SB-E) dont have IGP. if you really think about it, it does make sense, since ppl buying the high-end line chips surely wouldnt bother with the integrated graphics besides, SB-E maybe "old tech" as you put it, but theyre still the high-end chips, beating any other SB and (upcoming) IB cpus! So performance-wise, Intel does not promise too much

cheers

PS: 990X is gulftown btw, not SB-E

[Eldaren]

well u said it urself: SB MAINSTREAM cpus have IPG, whereas the EXTREME cpus (SB-E) dont have IGP. if you really think about it, it does make sense, since ppl buying the high-end line chips surely wouldnt bother with the integrated graphics besides, SB-E maybe "old tech" as you put it, but theyre still the high-end chips, beating any other SB and (upcoming) IB cpus! So performance-wise, Intel does not promise too much

cheers

PS: 990X is gulftown btw, not SB-E

^^ My thoughts exactly. If you're dishing out $400-1000 for a CPU, why would you want it to have an IGP? It's a waste of space on the die.

SB is by no means old tech. Ivy Bridge is barely faster clock for clock. It was just a die shrink with 3d transistors. And like Jaybee said, SB-E will be the fastest desktop processor until IB-E hits next year.

I don't mean to sound like a troll here but Intel didn't design SB-E around Clevo's laptop. It's just not going to happen. All most all of their sales from desktops chips come from actual desktops. So they will cater to that market alone.

[E.Blar]

Guys, I want to start a discussion about the Clevo P270WM and say a couple of words about its specs and features, how it fares against its cheaper counterparts P180EM and so on.

As most of you know, the P270HM features desktop CPU's on its platform and currently there are only the Sandy Bridge-E processors available for it. Since Ivy Bridge is just around the corner, coming out no later than after a few weeks, I hoped that the refreshed Ivy Bridge-E series would arrive to replace the 32nm Sandy CPU's. But after a little bit of research this morning I was heavily disappointed by Intel's roadmap for the "E-series" performance CPU's. They are supposed to hit the market in mid-2013!!!

>>>Link to read about it<<<

I planned to get one of these P270's this year, but it seems Intel's roadmap to failure convinced me not to do it. Thats full of win and here is why:

*Sandy E-series are all rated 130W TDP (battery life ftw! Second power brick FTW!)
*Sandy E-series are supposed to be "highest-end", but with 1.5 yrs old tech (prices for old tech are ftw!)
*Sandy E-series gets spanked by the mobile Ivy Bridge CPU's in single and dual-core, especially with OC (again, old tech FTW!)
*Sandy E-series has NO integrated graphics (goodbye, optimus! See you too, battery life!)
*Sandy E-series cannot be overclocked higher than the new Ivy CPU's (now where is the fun in that?)
*Sandy E-series doesent support PCI-Express 3.0 (talking about high-end...)
*Sandy E-series gets replaced by Ivy Bridge E-series in mid-2013, right when Haswell hits the market and then things get ugly - Haswell is going to spank them in everything but rendering and server operations. Way to spend some thousands on old tech!

Now, the Clevo P270WM gets handicapped because of these things in the following ways:

1.) Costs a good deal more, with older processor tech right out the box
2.) Can't utilise Optimus from its Nvidia 600 series cards, cause the CPU lacks integrated graphics
3.) Can't ulilise PCI-Express 3.0 cause of CPU supporting only 2.0
4.) Ain't getting better battery life until Ivy Bridge-E hits the market in 16 months
5.) Ain't being offered with AMD cards, no Crossfire for now, makes the user buy Nvidia's expensive stuff
6.) If you buy the P270WM now, then upgrading to Ivy E-series will NOT be a good option. By the time Ivy E-series hits the market, the Sandy E-series will be so old, that you will be lucky to get some 200$ for your old i7 3960X that costs 1200$ now. And who will want old tech? If somebody needs a replacement, they will look at Ivy Core i7's from the lower segment that are still more powerful than the old 32nm Sandy without PCI-Ex 3.0, with 130W TDP.

Things I like about the P270WM:

I.) Love its 3x HDD slots, possible for 4x with caddy
II.) Love that it has no glossy stuff (especially the bezel, nice to see its gloss-free)
III.) Love its 17.3" with 2xVGA slots, instead of the 18.4" P180HM that is hard to find a carrying bag for
IV.) Would love to have a desktop CPU in a laptop, sadly that aint happening. Not with old 32nm tech. Never.
V.) Would have loved a 32GB of ram in a laptop
VI.) Like its display hinge, a lot cleaner-looking than the other P series. Also like the subwoofer thats on the right side, instead of beneath it.

Well, I won't be buying a Clevo P270WM after all. Not with that price, not with all the old tech going on. And restricted to Nvidia... to make it worse, no hopes for Optimus. Might as well have made it with AMD cards only. Could've been cheaper.

So, I hope my little rant doesen't upset you guys, but I really needed to post this. I just don't understand - shouldn't Intel aim for releasing the High-End Extreme series of CPU's first and then on to the consumer series? Why do they release them 10 months AFTER and charge ridiculous high prices for that? I can't see the logic in that.

AMD needs to step up and do something....

P180EM? P270HM? Wut
Errr... You know there is a P270WM owner's lounge, right?

Intel always releases their desktop hex-cores near the next gen. This happened before, and it will happen again.

If you wanted one of these, battery life and power brick size should obviously not be a concern. Buy a W110ER if you actually expect to haul this around frequently.

It's not 1.5 years old, SNB-E was just released. Where...?

Why would you waste your money on one of these if you can only use 2 cores?

Again, shame on you for wanting to use this on battery.

You can't prove that until we've seen this laptop and had a chance to mess around with it. Anyway, if you can actually use 12 threads, 600Mhz difference won't matter.

So? If it did, what would you use it for? No mobile GPU on the market can max out what we already have, and very few desktop GPU's can come close.

So use them for rendering and server operations.

As I said, SNB-E isn't older tech, it's brand new.

Bringing up battery life again.

Remind me how it will improve anything again..?

Please stop.

Fail? 675m are cheap. As in, $300 each.

So don't buy a 3960X, buy a 3930K. Also, I was unaware that old CPU prices deteriorated so quickly. I see $300 core2quads all the time. Oh, and one year is not old.

P170EM can do 3 with caddy, if you really need RAID5. Though 4 HDD's in a 17 incher is nice...

Why are glossy screen bezels bad again..?

Like everyone pointed out, there will be a P370EM with dual GPU's and P150EM coloring. You should get it instaid.

You want a desktop CPU, here it is. And 32nm isn't old, ivy isn't even out yet.

P151HM1 and up (except for P180HM and x7200) can all support 32GB of ram.

Yes, the subwoofer is cool.

The prices are there because intel can get away with it, and 6-core CPUs take time to develope. Oh, and regarding the topic title, how does intel's roadmap have anything to do with the power of the P270WM?

Bottom line, I suggest you wait for the P370EM. It will give you your dual GPUs in a 17 inch chassis, 3 HDD's (with caddy), and Ivy Bridge. By the way, what do you want to do with this?

[Aikimox]

Why would you need optimus on a DTR? The battery is not meant for battery life. It's basically a UPS. In terms of old tech, the i7-990x is still crazy fast. It will handle any games for probably a couple more years. SB-E will be much the same case.
As Aikimox said, PCI-E 3.0 is a complete waste. No single GPU card can max out 2.0's bandwidth and none probably will for a while.
Intel didn't build the SB-E chips for laptops. Plain and simple. This is why there is no IGP.
Lastly, AMD is phasing out the 6990m as the 7k series are right around the corner. Wait a little while longer and I'm sure they will offer X-fire 7970m's.
You may see this as a complete waste of money, but others may not.
Just my 2 cents.

Yes, the battery is a UPS in the x7200/p270wm. And that's the down side, IMHO. I can work for 4-5 hours on battery on my M18x and though, many will claim it's not practical, it is very much practical for me as I take my beast everywhere I go (IT-related job). I spend countless hours on meetings in public places like starbucks and having a 18" screen on the go is a big thing both for myself and my business partners or clients. I don't really care about the weight and bulkiness for that matter (those who do, go to gym ).
And while I do understand that Intel wouldn't make a Sandy-E+Igp combo on a single die, the could at least make another chipset with an IGP integrated into a mobo (like they used to do) and offer the option for those who care about battery life.

[Epicwin]

Makes the question what the hell Intel really thinks about.. giving good performance or delivering decent performance for the sake of better business.. Annoys me so badly..

The latter for sure. They are a business, when it comes down to it. It sucks that AMD can't muster any competition...

[Saxxon]

If I didn't know better I'd think you were calling the 270WM a total loss. I just bought one myself but I am fairly certain that unless its broken in some manner, it won't dissappoint. My last Sager/Clevo DTR ran for 7 years before failing and ran everything I threw at it during that time, only at the end did it start to hiccup as the MB failed (due to heating I think, partly my fault for not replacing the cooling mat I had with it for the first 6 years).

Waiting on a new one is great if you have the time, many may not. With the old one 10-6 I need a replacement in short order. I'd honestly leaned toward the 18.4" model, but the significantly smaller RAM limitation gave me pause as 3-4 years out it could prove to be a wall on running new games circa 2015 & on. The 180s were also of limited availability which meant I would essentially be buying a machine that was already phased out, thus obsolete 1 year earlier or more.

The price on the P9270 was also less than I expected, when I originally specced it out it came around 5300 on a site that had an early configurator up. When the time came the graphics card was different, and the overall price dropped by over $1000 from what I'd originally found speculated. This may be partly a function of what you are stating about newer tech coming out soon, but I highly doubt its a $4k doorstop I just purchased.

And frankly, if you are buying a DTR and concerned about batteries, you are buying the wrong machine. I never run mine on battery save just to grab info off it. The old one throttled back performance on battery by 50% - not what I consider a handicap because its not supposed to be a laptop, but a one piece desktop you can easily carry from place to place with greater ease than a tower & monitor, mouse & keyboard. Its meant to be run from the wall, not the battery. As others said, the battery is a UPS.