dv6t-61XX / dv7t-61XX Switchable Graphics Discussion

[teotuf]

nice response, and very detailed, teotuf...however I don't see you making the case for the muxed switching being a software thing. It would seem to be a hardware issue if the older models don't support muxless switching and the newer ones don't support muxed switching all other things being equal.

No?

i will confirm it once i receive my new dv6-6100 (clearance delay in alaska rigth now). but intuitively i see no hardware difference between the dv6-6000 and dv6-6100 as far as the graphics framework goes. the fact that older ones dont support muxless/new ones dont support mux switching is simply because that drivers require the specific models.

an analogy is that my car is a toyota (dv6t-6000), and yours is a ford(dv6t-6100). i'm registered for my toyota and you are registered for your ford. the question is can I drive your ford/can you drive my toyota - and the main problem is that i dont have your car's keys and can't drive your car legally (registration only recognizing you as the driver, not me), not the fact that i can't operate a car just because it is a ford. simply by giving me your keys and adding me to the insurance/registration (aka, installing the driver succesfully), i can legally drive your car just as effectively as you can.

in other words - and i'll confirm it once i get my new laptop - the only difference between the two is an updated driver from HP giving automatic switching in the dv6-6100 models. if you bypass the driver whitelist (by extracting the driver from the spXXXXX.exe), you can install the drivers meant for the 6000 series on the 6100 version and get the old manual switchable graphics.

[obscurehero]

i will confirm it once i receive my new dv6-6100 (clearance delay in alaska rigth now). but intuitively i see no hardware difference between the dv6-6000 and dv6-6100 as far as the graphics framework goes. the fact that older ones dont support muxless/new ones dont support mux switching is simply because that drivers require the specific models.

an analogy is that my car is a toyota (dv6t-6000), and yours is a ford(dv6t-6100). i'm registered for my toyota and you are registered for your ford. the question is can I drive your ford/can you drive my toyota - and the main problem is that i dont have your car's keys and can't drive your car legally (registration only recognizing you as the driver, not me), not the fact that i can't operate a car just because it is a ford. simply by giving me your keys and adding me to the insurance/registration (aka, installing the driver succesfully), i can legally drive your car just as effectively as you can.

in other words - and i'll confirm it once i get my new laptop - the only difference between the two is an updated driver from HP giving automatic switching in the dv6-6100 models. if you bypass the driver whitelist (by extracting the driver from the spXXXXX.exe), you can install the drivers meant for the 6000 series on the 6100 version and get the old manual switchable graphics.

The real question is...are ford's better than toyota's? Distraction...lol

Anyway, so are you saying that the 6100 series laptops use powerexpress 4.0? If so, isn't this a better thing? Its pseudo-crossfire which, in theory, should increase your graphics capabilities. That is, the computer can dedicate its rendering duties to both processors...right?

As for your example, I'm not really sure if I'm terribly up-to-speed on the implementation of AMD's powerexpress 4.0. If its hardware-based, than I disagree. If its simply software and model issues (like your keys in the example), than its only a matter of time before they release drivers to do both...

hmmmmm

[Falco152]

It's simply a software/model issue.

It is expected to be pushed to all Intel switchable starting with those 6000M or higher by end of the year.

Also, HP doesn't like making two drivers of the same main series. They are slow than they need to.

[obscurehero]

It's simply a software/model issue.

It is expected to be pushed to all Intel switchable starting with those 6000M or higher by end of the year.

Also, HP doesn't like making two drivers of the same main series. They are slow than they need to.

1. So, as it is a software issue...and they're pushing it out to all 6000M units. Is it safe to say that they're abandoning manual switching?

2. Also, is it accurate to assume that these are using powerexpress 4.0

3. With the new dynamic switching (muxless) are we able to use only HP drivers or newer drivers from AMD as they come out

4. Does this new system actually improve performance by utilizing load-sharing of the hybrid system or only cross display where the dGPU only acts as the IGP's slave doing all the heavy lifting while the IGP gets all the credit (ie. outputs the video so the OS doesn't see two different drivers).

[dark rider]

I have no trouble buying the fact that it's software based, but if it's software running on the card itself and we have no end user ability to update the card's bios, then we're still SOL. I've been around long enough to remember updating both drivers and bios for video cards... I can't remember the last time I came across a stand alone video card where new bios updates were offered, but it was back in the days of AGP and earlier.

Teotuf, are you saying that there is a separate HP process that controls the switching itself? If so, the process would show up in Task Manager, and I doubt that, because why would the CCC interface with the HP software, if non-HP based CCC/driver packages still work with our cards?

[dave1812]

no it's definitely a software thing. the switchable graphics isn't the ATI drivers - it's from the HP drivers. there reason that a "rollback" install of HP's manual switchable graphics drivers failed is most likely because the spXXXXX.exe checks for the product number of your laptop to ensure compatibility.

since the new ones are 6100, and not 6000, the setup will fail just because of a dumb reason. use universal extractor on the hp driver, and extract the actual driver itself to install, and you should be fine.

the reason why you can't disable intel is because of the way the switchable graphics is setup.

intel:
applications -> intel HD 3000 -> screen output

ATI:
applications -> ATI -> intel HD 3000 -> screen output

as you can see, the ATI chip takes input from applications/games, then outputs to intel first then the screen, not screen directly. so disabling intel would disconnect the screen output from the rest of your computer, and hence nothing will work.



and i just noticed this:


this does not mean that the ATI chip is inactive, its just doing its work anonymously behind the scene.

OK, let's cut to the chase. here's what I want to know (PLEASE!!!)

If I buy another DV6, will I be able to use the MANUAL method of controlling the graphics, as I did with the DV6 I ordered in April, because according to you, it IS possible to roll the drivers back (to December, 2010 or Jan 2? 2011, I hope?) ie, can I simply extract the correct files (and what's the URL to those drivers?)

(and just to clarify, the unit I sent back last friday wouldn't switch to the Radeon no matter what HP tried) I want a DV6 that I CAN CONTROL the graphics card. Basically I want it running on the Radeon 100%.

[Falco152]

Currently not using the newer PowerExpress 4 yet, only a preview version that was already implemented in 11.4.

AMD is not getting rid of the manual switching, they just haven't figure out how to get it work well in a muxless design. If they can't reasonably keep it without messing up, they drop it.

Once, the muxless design is complete and working, AMD would be releasing it, not HP. This would get rid the OEM dependency for graphic drivers. Just like the Nvidia's Optimus.

As for the new system, I don't know much. I know they really behind compared to Nvidia in this field.

As the non OEM based driver version would still work since it was partially implemented since 11.4. The problem is your intel driver is ridiculously out of date, which could trigger other issues.

[obscurehero]

Currently not using the newer PowerExpress 4 yet, only a preview version that was already implemented in 11.4.

AMD is not getting rid of the manual switching, they just haven't figure out how to get it work well in a muxless design. If they can't reasonably keep it without messing up, they drop it.

Once, the muxless design is complete and working, AMD would be releasing it, not HP. This would get rid the OEM dependency for graphic drivers. Just like the Nvidia's Optimus.

As for the new system, I don't know much. I know they really behind compared to Nvidia in this field.

As the non OEM based driver version would still work since it was partially implemented since 11.4. The problem is your intel driver is ridiculously out of date, which could trigger other issues.

Thanks for the answers/clarification

[sav]

The hardware IS different, after all, many got the 2GB version of 6770M that was not previously avialble. I wonder, if one should be able to rollback drivers for the 1 GB version still though?

[brian112358]

I found this in the Catalyst Control Center's switchable graphics help section:

Selecting a Switchable Graphics Method

If your computer supports multiple methods of switching between graphics processors (GPUs), the Switchable Graphics Method page becomes available so that you can choose the method that you want to use. Your selection determines the GPU selection settings that are available in the Switchable Graphics page.

Note: This page is available only on Windows® 7 systems that support multiple methods of Switchable Graphics. For more information, see Switchable Graphics.
In either Standard View or Advanced View, click Power > Switchable Graphics Method.
Tip: For more ways of accessing Switchable Graphics, see Accessing the Switchable Graphics Page.
In the Switchable Graphics Method area, select one of the following selection methods:
Select the graphics processor based on application needs—Known as the "dynamic scheme" in Hotkeys Manager, this method lets you assign applications to a specific GPU. You can improve the performance of certain 3D and video applications by assigning them to the high-performance (discrete) GPU. For more information, see Assigning Applications to GPUs.

When you select this method, a set of 3D application and video settings become available within the Control Center application for each GPU so that you can configure the GPUs individually. For more information, see 3D Settings and Video Settings.

Select the graphics processor manually or based on power source—Known as the "fixed scheme" in Hotkeys Manager, this method lets you assign all graphics responsibilities to a single GPU to maximize power savings or system performance. For more information, see Manually Selecting a GPU and Switching GPUs Based on Power Source.
Click Apply.
Switching between methods may take several seconds.

The settings in the Switchable Graphics page updates based on your selection.

Does this mean it's possible to have both dynamic and manual switching?