The new SSD Thread (Benchmarks, Brands, News and Advice)

[makaveli72]

**** it...dseo80 looks smart in the avatar and seems to know what they're talking about. MLC, SLC, MLC, SLC....enee, menee, minee, mo!

[Cape Consultant]

newkleer, got it! I agree! And although I canot afford it, Master Card can! Life is short.

And makaveli72, just noticed your avatar and it ROCKS. That was and is a **** fine movie Dave (world's oldest teenager

[dseo80]

Very interesting, dseo80. This is just the type of info I was looking for. Bottom line, should I get the Intel MLC 80GB when it comes out? Capacity is third with me after reliability and SPEED. I still get the feeling that MLC, for whatever reason, is possibly not RELIABLE enough. I do understand that your post tells me I am wrong on this, and I hope I am. Still waiting, Dave

If you need to write and rewrite ALOT of data (~1TB/day) very often then No. Regardless of what intel says one disadvantage MLC will have at these small densities are limited endruance (the number of times the same cell can be written to).

However consider: if you rewrite your entire 80GB SDD every day. It would still take 10,000 cycles or 28 years before the flash failed. If wear leveling is implemented very well as in the intel drive (as i assume it is), the drive will be obsolete technology long before failure. Also note as the density of drives increases (128GB, 256GB, 512GB) for the same usage lifetime increases. The small endurance of MLC cells only becomes an issue when densities are small (think back to 1GB, 2GB USB flash drives). Then its likely you could write and rewrite these drives many times per day. For massive SSDs (64GB+) i dont really see an issue in reliability.

In conclusion: should you buy the drive? If you have the money and dont need large capacity drives then YES. The intel drive looks to offer a substantial improvement over previous SSDs as well as all conventional HDDs.

Personally I think the drive its too much right now, if it was 120GB at that price I would be very tempted to buy one. However the samsung 128 GB SSD (which has yet to prove itself ofcourse...) offered in dell laptops is only 450$ (with so many dell coupons its actually less). Thats ~30% more storage for ~50% of the price (again i stress the performance of the drive will be very important). Even if it offers performance near the current 64GB SLC SSD from samsung (and i believe it will, samsung's philosophy isn't release of "budget" class devices that suffer in performance for gain in price) it seems like a better buy than the intel drive.

Unfortunately the same 128GB samsung drives seem to be on ebay for much more (~$1000).

*I neglected to mention anything about what happens when a failure actually DOES occur, you lose 2 bits in an MLC but only 1 bit in and SLC and this makes correcting the error much easier in SLC devices, however probability that First a failure needs to occur, Then it has to be recoverable in the SLC device but not the MLC device statistically small enough to ignore.

EDIT: I would also like to point out that when I previously said MLC is the future of SSDs I am talking about MLC in future SSDs and Intel's SSDs. Les's opinion regarding current MLC SSDs using Jmicron controller (OCZ Core, Ridata blah blah) are 100% on the mark in regards to speed and performance. In addition reliability in current Jmicron controller based SSDs seem to lack reliability due to some issues with the controller as well (data corruption being reported in both dell and ocz forums).

[Cape Consultant]

Thank you. I have been folllowing this thread since its first post, and there is an amazing amount of information here. This Jmicron controller issue does bother me. All along, it was said that an SSD would be a better safer place to keep your data. It is hard to remember the last time a spinning drive corrupting data was mentioned in any sort of widespread form. Can you say Deskstar???

I am going to keep a sharp eye out for Samsung and Intel, and see if I can strike! I just do much surfing, emial, web design and mesing around in general, so no worries here about too much writing, I will be dead before it wears out

Dave

[John Kotches]

However consider: if you rewrite your entire 80GB SDD every day. It would still take 10,000 cycles or 28 years before the flash failed. If wear leveling is implemented very well as in the intel drive (as i assume it is), the drive will be obsolete technology long before failure. Also note as the density of drives increases (128GB, 256GB, 512GB) for the same usage lifetime increases. The small endurance of MLC cells only becomes an issue when densities are small (think back to 1GB, 2GB USB flash drives). Then its likely you could write and rewrite these drives many times per day. For massive SSDs (64GB+) i dont really see an issue in reliability.

I somehow doubt that each cell will fail on write 10,001 on a consistent and repeatable basis. That is likely a "safe number" based on large numbers of cycles.

So individual cells will vary with many (maybe even all of them) enduring beyond that threshold.

Best,

[Les]

dseo80....

Thank you. Your knowledge is very apparent and it is nice to see that here. I can't recall the number of back and forth conversations I have had regarding calculations of ssd life.

If I can ask just one thing??? Stay please. Your a welcome resource.

[dseo80]

I somehow doubt that each cell will fail on write 10,001 on a consistent and repeatable basis. That is likely a "safe number" based on large numbers of cycles.

So individual cells will vary with many (maybe even all of them) enduring beyond that threshold.

Best,

That is correct: 10,000 is the minimum number of cycles for ~99.9% of a number of given NAND flash cells.

[dseo80]

dseo80....

Thank you. Your knowledge is very apparent and it is nice to see that here. I can't recall the number of back and forth conversations I have had regarding calculations of ssd life.

If I can ask just one thing??? Stay please. Your a welcome resource.

Thanks alot Les coming from the NBR expert on SSDs that means alot!
Just glad to be on board!

[Cape Consultant]

Let's say I wanted to buy the Intel 80GB SSD NOW! Where would I get it? When could I get it? Who will be the first to have it?

Way too many secrets about this type of thing, let's get this info out so we can be ready to POUNCE!

Dave

[makaveli72]

That's what i'm talking about Dave..let's get aggressive!