DIY eGPU experiences

[Karamazovmm]

That's not what I mean.

At the moment, TB cable supports 10 Gb/s bidir (or less since mdp tb cable seems slower), and it's claimed to be 4X PCI-E .. but 2.0 it's 16 Gb/s bidir while 1.0 it's 8 GB/s bidir. That's my doubt... It's not a real PCI-E 4x 2.0 but a 1.0 or 2X 2.0 with actual cable technology..

thats what I tried to explain, its not the controller, indeed the light ridge controller can do more than pcie x4, since the controller can do 4 x10 = 40gpbs bidirectional channels, and the pcie x4 is 4 X8 = 32gbps. However since the southbridge only dedicates a pcie x4 for the thunderbolt controller its indeed pcie x4.

However the limitation is not on the controller, its on the cable or the adapted mdp connector, since it can only direct 2 thunderbolt channels per port.

as I said I really hope Im wrong on this one, since intel hasnt released white pappers regarding thunderbolt yet (or not one that I could find), if you do have a link please share

Wait... what is this??? O_O http://download.intel.com/pressroom/...Pro_materials2 What would mean with Sony's implementation?

thats the whitepaper for the future of thunderbolt, or rather a working prototype that they had, it caused a stir when it was launched last year. However the thunderbolt needs to pass electricity for it to be that useful, thus there isnt anymore comment regarding this, after this they had a showcase demonstrating lightpeak, and guess what was the connector interface? USB

[HeavyLoader]

Hi, I've done some reading through the forums (including the entire 1st post of this thread) and did a search, but I couldn't find the answers I seek, so I ask -

The desktop video card outputs to it's HDMI/VGA/DVI connector. The notebook's LCD display uses a LVDS input on your systemboard with no external jack to connect to it. Meaning then they cannot be physically connected together unless adapt a US$30 ebay kits allowing external input to the internal LCD as discussed, which only quite an advanced user would ever attempt.

Another more elegant solution would use a HDMI input expresscard as described at Play PS3/X360 on laptop screen using new HDMI Input Express Card. . Though current costs of $170 for the item makes it unattractive AND you'd need to then do a mPCIe eGPU implementation.

There are however these less drastic ways of getting your accelerated graphics card to render to the internal LCD, all of which will have lower performance than when running using an external LCD:
NVIDIA Optimus driver provides a transparent internal LCD cloning mode for systems with a 4500MHD/HD/HD3000 iGPU primary video when using a NVIDIA GTS4xx/GTX4xx card.

Use Lucidlogix virtu drivers to provide transparent output using the internal LCD if you have a Sandy Bridge cpu.

Ultramon/Chung Gun method can clone from the desktop eGPU's window to the internal LCD for windowed games/apps.

USB 3.0 framegrabbers have sufficient bandwidth to capture the image from the desktop eGPU and pipe it back to your notebook's display.
It is not feasible to use USB 2.0 framegrabbers. The desktop video card outputs HDMI/S-Video. To try to clone the output from the desktop video card via a USB frame grabber can be done, but consider say 1280x800x32-bit = 4MB per image. If gaming at 30FPS that's 120MB/s bandwidth required. USB 2.0 is 480Mbps (60MB/s in *best case* scenario.. more like 30MB/s in real-life).

Referring to Nando4's first post, how do the Lucidlogix virtu drivers work ? Are there any hardware limitations to this ? Has anyone here tried using them ? How do they compare to Nvidia Optimus as an internal LCD solution ?

Reason I'm asking is because I'm planning to buy a new laptop, and I want to know if it is worth the trouble to limit my choices to those with Intel 4500MHD/HD/HD3000 iGPUs for the Optimus solution.

Thanks in advance !

[Crystal1988]

thats what I tried to explain, its not the controller, indeed the light ridge controller can do more than pcie x4, since the controller can do 4 x10 = 40gpbs bidirectional channels, and the pcie x4 is 4 X8 = 32gbps. However since the southbridge only dedicates a pcie x4 for the thunderbolt controller its indeed pcie x4.

However the limitation is not on the controller, its on the cable or the adapted mdp connector, since it can only direct 2 thunderbolt channels per port.

as I said I really hope Im wrong on this one, since intel hasnt released white pappers regarding thunderbolt yet (or not one that I could find), if you do have a link please share

Sorry for the misunderstanding

So, since TB has a cable claimed to go to 17 Gb/s, we'll have a PCI-E 2X 2.0 compliant set. And for MDP which has only 2 lines, we'll have a PCI-E 1X 2.0 compliant set.

thats the whitepaper for the future of thunderbolt, or rather a working prototype that they had, it caused a stir when it was launched last year. However the thunderbolt needs to pass electricity for it to be that useful, thus there isnt anymore comment regarding this, after this they had a showcase demonstrating lightpeak, and guess what was the connector interface? USB

this is what we have in Z21 http://weekly.ascii.jp/elem/000/000/...o003_1000x.jpg it's seems exactely that technology... So we'd have 50 Gb/s per channel (and there you can see two channels, so 100 Gb/s.... or better, UP TO 100). What I don't understand is.. in a solution like this, there's still the need of a thunderbolt controller??? I'm not sure of this.. cuz as it was the technology, any kind of electrical signal could have been converted to infrared signal; so I think that it's possible that the transmitter die it's directely connected to PCI-E bus.

[Gil3]

Same guy (company?) where I got my pe4l from, same price too! Mine seems to be defective, going by his ebay feedback score it does seem to be reliable. I'll post again once he responds to my replacement request.

OK
Anyone else can answer me if Is the seller at the link below:
PE4H + EC2C ExpressCard to PCI-E Adapter V2 stock 10pcs | eBay
Reliable?

[User Retired 2]

Referring to Nando4's first post, how do the Lucidlogix virtu drivers work ? Are there any hardware limitations to this ? Has anyone here tried using them ? How do they compare to Nvidia Optimus as an internal LCD solution ?

Reason I'm asking is because I'm planning to buy a new laptop, and I want to know if it is worth the trouble to limit my choices to those with Intel 4500MHD/HD/HD3000 iGPUs for the Optimus solution.

I do not have a SB notebook so I haven't used Viru but have gathered his from other comments on here:

1) unlike the Optimus driver, no pci-e compression is engaged so expect a significant decrease in FPS when running external LCD compared to an external LCD

2) it requires a SB notebook to run

3) it's not free

Why must you limit yourself to HD3000 iGPUs only? Any existing Optimus dGPU system can be made to work with an eGPU instead as explained. Just means booting up via DIY eGPU Setup 1.x instead.

OK
Anyone else can answer me if Is the seller at the link below:
PE4H + EC2C ExpressCard to PCI-E Adapter V2 stock 10pcs | eBay
Reliable?

Redtrontech is bplus' Taiwanese distributor. See www.HWtools.net ?????????? .

[Axeia]

Redtrontech is bplus' Taiwanese distributor. See www.HWtools.net ?????????? .

That's reassuring, explains the fast shipping too! Had mine within a few days.

[Karamazovmm]

Sorry for the misunderstanding

So, since TB has a cable claimed to go to 17 Gb/s, we'll have a PCI-E 2X 2.0 compliant set. And for MDP which has only 2 lines, we'll have a PCI-E 1X 2.0 compliant set.

no its pcie 2x 2.0 all around. as I said, the light ridge and the eagle ridge would give the same performance for an egpu, since it would only use 2 channels.

this is what we have in Z21 http://weekly.ascii.jp/elem/000/000/...o003_1000x.jpg it's seems exactely that technology... So we'd have 50 Gb/s per channel (and there you can see two channels, so 100 Gb/s.... or better, UP TO 100). What I don't understand is.. in a solution like this, there's still the need of a thunderbolt controller??? I'm not sure of this.. cuz as it was the technology, any kind of electrical signal could have been converted to infrared signal; so I think that it's possible that the transmitter die it's directely connected to PCI-E bus.

I hardly believe that what sony did will drive up to 50gpbs bidirectional per channel.

It would only be possible if the entire pcie was dedicated to the pmd, which currently with the lower performance I find it hard to believe, the more probable thing is that it would be the same as apple, pcie x2 2.0

[Crystal1988]

no its pcie 2x 2.0 all around. as I said, the light ridge and the eagle ridge would give the same performance for an egpu, since it would only use 2 channels.

Sorry, another time my mistake, I confused lanes with channels.

I hardly believe that what sony did will drive up to 50gpbs bidirectional per channel.

It would only be possible if the entire pcie was dedicated to the pmd, which currently with the lower performance I find it hard to believe, the more probable thing is that it would be the same as apple, pcie x2 2.0

I don't mean that it will go with that bandwidth, I only say that technology is capable of 50 Gb/s per optical fiber cable.

In this case, as Nando4 says, it may be that one fiber is for DP and the other is connected to PCI-E. Since there's no dGpu in the Laptop, having available a 50 Gb/s they probably set PCI-E bus at least at 4X 2.0 (32 Gb/s) leaving uncovered another 8X+4X. They could have also set PCI-E bus as 8X-8X which would mean 64 Gb/s channel, more then enough to use the 50 Gb/s of that Silicon Photonics Link. Or, since there's no other dGPU they coul have set PCI-E bus directely as 16X. It wouldn't change nothing anyway.

It's probably at least a 4X since performance difference between 6650M in PMD and 6630M in Sony SA (which is @ 16X 2.0) goes in that way:
6650M is 10% faster then 6630M; in some test seen in a japanese review, PMD goes 24.86 and if it's a real 4X bandwidth, we'd have a loss of 20% (avarage through some review in scaling performance)..so, if it would @ 16X we would have 31.075. SA/6630M goes 28.32 and since 6650M it's 10% faster -> 6650M would have to get 31.152. Results are quite similar, so it may be a real 4X.

[Karamazovmm]

^^yep all that would make sense.

Since 2 channels are dedicated to the wi fi and the LTE modem

There would be available 14 channels, and since there is a lower performance of teh 6650m compared to what we would get if it wouldnt be outside, its clear to me that there is some channels limiting things

[Crystal1988]

Uhm, if I'm not wrong, WiFi and LTE modem (which I don't have anyway :P) are connected to 2 of the eight PCI-E ports available from the Northbridge. In fact, SA which has the same platform, dedicates al PCI-E bus from CPU to the 6630M (it goes @16X 2.0 confirmed by GPU-Z)

I think that they set the same in Z. So SA grants a 128 Gb/s bus (16X) to 6630M while Z21 grants from 32 Gb/s to 50 Gb/s as maximum (with PCI-E 8x or 16x). Does it make sense?