Taking DELL to court.

[Bungral]

My order was acknowledged, confirmed and shipped and THEN cancelled!!!

[Crimsoned]

I've never complained about a mis-type price.

Dell reserves the right to cancel based on errors like this, read ToA/Other paperwork related to buying a product beforehand. Know you can't be abusive when an error is committed. Now I know you have poor character and will most definitely not be doing business with you no matter the price.

I as a business owner, feel bad for Reps from Dell whom probably can't voice their opinions to customers like this.

5 days, big whoop. I spent 3 months nearly 4 months dealing with HP Envy 17 issues, that was $1,300 mind you and wasn't a pricing error but faulty design. Only reason I stuck with it so long is because the pricing/performance was the best in the market. I was cheap, however I never made HP responsible for it if they had offered a refund only, I'd taken it. It wasn't their fault I didn't want to spend more.


Obviously waiting a potential month for the laptop to be built didn't stop you from ordering, thus you can't claim "urgency" of needing a laptop. So what's next? Dell needs to pay you interests on money that was being held by your bank but never transferred to Dell?
You didn't have your money to look elsewhere, I think we all know you were NOT looking to buy elsewhere and were only wanting to take advantage of the pricing error.

Buy it for $1,000 or go elsewhere. Instead of asking Dell to meet you somewhere in between as IS fair, you demand that they take a loss on based a human error? How greedy can you be? Are you really that cheap, or needy?


@Bungrai, I would highly recommend you read terms of conditions. It was my understanding the moment the laptop ships, you are charged and the transaction is finalized. So why they canceled at that point, I am unsure. Seek options, in your case you may actually have something.

[NullAndVoid]

Fyi over on HUKD a member managed to get hold of someone higher up the food chain, they are reviewing the situation on the shipped orders and are considering various options.

[thedalmeny]

@Crimsoned

All depends on the region i'm afraid.

I'm guessing you don't live in the United Kingdom?

We have consumer laws here, one crucial part of selling something in the U.K is the 'Contract of Sale'. Typically, this happens at the point of despatch and is specified as such by a companies T&Cs. Dell however, due to 'Just In Time' manufacturing state in their terms that this occurs at the point of 'Order Confirmation'. Mainly as they have to either hold or take payment before proceeding with building a system, i guess to save them from outlaying costs for an order. Consequently, a customer also can't cancel after this point. Their only option would be to receive the product and then send it back under 'Distance Seller Regulations'. Unlike other companies such as Amazon who can charge at the point of despatch, since they are not manufacturing to order.

Everything is essentially backed up by two main things here, one is the 'Sale of Goods Act 1979' and the other is 'Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977'.

Under the 'Sales of Goods Act 1979' and 'Contract of Sale' is binding, it can't be cancelled, as much as Dell wishes it could be, this act also has no provisions for mispricing.

They could say they simply lack the stock to provide the product, which they obviously don't.. But then you go into the realms of what is called 'Loss Of Bargain'. So if a retailer is unable to provide you the product under the 'Contract Of Sale' due to stock, you can make them pay the difference for purchasing a product from elsewhere of equal quality & specification.

Now Dell make a disclaimer for 'typography and misprice errors', unfortunately because the sales of goods act has no provision for that, then it is irrelevant in consumer law. This then actions your right under the 'Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977', this prohibits from Dell from using any form of disclaimer or term which is contradictory to or does not follow law for which it is subject. Therefore, putting a disclaimer in an order confirmation means practically nothing legally.

Going to court in the U.K for consumer issues is very easy for an average person, it is also heavily weighted in favour of the consumer. A company can't claim legal costs and are forced to attend the consumers local court, in addition to this, unless a misprice is in your face obvious (£100 for a £1000 product), a county court judge will almost always side with the consumer. Providing they can prove a contract of sale.

A 50% difference would be viewed as a reasonable amount to make an assumption that the price was genuine, since retailers often use this figure to promote products with deep reductions in price. Would be almost impossible for Dell to argue otherwise.

I'm sure many assumed this was a misprice, it doesn't however stop them from exercising their rights. You may consider that immoral, then again, there are very few companies that don't exercise their own rights when the situation presents. So i don't hold much sympathy for Dell.

[Crimsoned]

I'd rather just quote Dells TOA:

Order and Acceptance
2.1 You may place an order for Product(s) and/or Services directly with Dell either online or by telephone. The placing of an order by you represents your offer to buy subject to these Consumer Terms. Please note that the Contract between you and Dell is formed only when Dell accepts your order by issuing you with an Order Confirmation in writing.
2.2 Any Products and/or Services forming part of your order which are not detailed in Dell's Order Confirmation do not form part of that Contract. If you notice any inaccuracies or errors in your Order Confirmation, you must contact Dell promptly upon receipt, and ideally immediately, so that Dell has an opportunity to correct any mistake or clarify any misunderstanding before commencing delivery/performance.
2.3 Dell may make minor changes to the specification of the Product you order if for example there is a scarcity of a particular component or for any other reasonable grounds notified to you. Any such minor change will be to at least an equivalent or better specification and will not adversely affect the material functionality or performance of the Product or performance of the Service. Any such change will be set out in your Order Confirmation. If you notify Dell of your acceptance of any such minor change to your order, or subsequently accept delivery of items listed in the Order Confirmation that are subject to a minor change, and use them (or unseal the Software delivered to you), this conduct will constitute acceptance by you of the minor changes in the order.
2.4 If Dell is unable to fulfil your order, Dell will notify you, and any payment received by Dell will be promptly returned.

[thedalmeny]

@Crimsoned

You're not listening to me, i've already told you what Dells T&C state.

Dell specifically state when the 'Contract of Sale' is formed in the T&Cs, these are provided during the order process in PDF format to the customer (At 'Order Acknowledgement' stage). I shall copy you them, so there is no further confusion on the matter:

1.6 Other key definitions in these Consumer Terms are:
“Contract” means the contract for the sale of Products and /or Services by
Dell directly to you in accordance with these Consumer Terms;

2. Order and Acceptance
2.1 You may place an order for Product(s) and/or Services directly with Dell either online or by telephone. The placing of an order by you
represents your offer to buy subject to these Consumer Terms. Please note that the Contract between you and Dell is formed only when Dell accepts your order by issuing you with an Order Confirmation in writing.

Personally though, i've won against a company arguing that withdrawal of payment formed a contract of sale. So even if Dell didn't have this T&C, in the U.K the sales of goods act is a little flaky on when the contract of sale is formed (It only specifies what the contract of sale means, rather than what action constitutes the formation of it) if not detailed in terms of an agreement. The Sales of Goods act refers more to 'money consideration'. This is why many retailers in the U.K do not take payment until despatch, leaves them to vulnerable to legal action.

This is why you believe the word 'Despatch' is key, when really as it pertains to consumer law in the U.K it is not. It's just that most retailers charge the customer at this point, so forms the basis of most online shops terms.

In future, i would suggest you only comment on matters you understand. Like wise, i wouldn't comment on consumer law in the U.S, since i have no idea how that is conducted.

p.s: Nice edit - makes you look less clueless i guess.

[Crimsoned]

Okay, seems you have experience in this situations. Rather sad, but I guess a cheapskate has to do what he has to do. (not pointing you out in particular just saying in general).

[thedalmeny]

Okay, seems you have experience in this situations. Rather sad, but I guess a cheapskate has to do what he has to do.

So because i prefer to exercise my right as a consumer, you brand me a 'cheapskate'. Rather amusing.

It is also sad that i am aware of my rights? Perhaps i just choose to education myself on such matters. Where you prefer to comment on them when you hold very little to no knowledge of subject, struggling to see who is actually the 'sad' one in this case.

Interestingly - these laws are not only in place to protect me.. They are also present to stop companies from offering promotions and prices they can not fulfil, stopping them from increasing traffic and using incorrect pricing to gain marketing advantage. Not to mention, it also protects retailers from frivolous orders where they may have to outlay manufacturing costs for products. It's a two way street.

Don't get me wrong though, i don't think this was Dells intention to gain interest by putting up an incorrect price.

[Crimsoned]

Okay let's put it this way.

First of I always exercise my rights as a consumer to the level that I accepted to enter into agreement with someone, nothing more nothing less. I don't need to abuse laws for personal benefit (personally anyone that uses deceit to obtain benefits, is a... you know what.

If I willingly went to an agreement with someone whom requested the right to cancel at any one time due to errors or for whatever reason, I would be sour about the experience and would probably think twice about doing business with that individual or business again depending the circumstance.... but I would not pursue it or manipulate legal loopholes (or more like lack of clarification) for my benefit like some cheapskate trying to get more than what they paid for.
I hold to what I agreed to, and I expect the opposite party to hold to what they agreed. If I agreed to give Dell sole rights to cancelling an order UNLESS THE terms I agreed to, allow me to do so.

I would have read the terms, and then judged whether that was something I could live with. Something you refused to do, and probably premeditated this entire situation: to buy the item, get canceled, and then take them to court anyways (right or wrong you'd win since Dell isn't going to pay a lawyer several tens of thousands of dollars to represent them for a machine worth $1k).

I don't care for consumer protection, or laws telling me what I can and cannot get away with. As one lawyer put it: laws are guides, not instruction manuals, to speak plainly. They can be easily manipulated for personal benefit at other's expense. Hence why I don't rely on them, unless the agreement I had with the opposite party involved is broken.

Specially ones that are as flaky as consumer protection laws.

Except the issue you are experiencing isn't a form of deceitful business practice but an honest human mistake. Now you want to abuse Consumer protection laws for a reason they were NOT originally intended to be used for and ignore what YOU as an adult agreed to in the first place just so you can get a product that you shouldn't receive in the first place for the price you paid.

Like I said, cheapskate.

[thedalmeny]

@Crimsoned

Finally, a well put together reply that isn't based on poor information or lack of knowledge.

I completely understand and appreciate your position.

However.... (Always a however isn't there?)

I don't hold the same rosey view that you do.

I've had to many poor experiences with large organisations violating consumer law, or even EU regulations, to give any some latitude in situations like this (Like my pun?).

The reason i know so much about the subject is i've been forced to investigate and take companies to court over such issues, for good reason.

Now in Dell's case, there has been far to many instances where they have decided to not only violate consumer rights but point blank refuse to solve situations which they are duly required to do so. Why should i therefore give them a 'pass' and simply allow them to trample over my consumer rights because you or others may perceive that as 'benefiting through loopholes'. We live in a world where 99% of companies try to gain a competitive advantage, even if this means sacrificing the rights of the consumer. I'll be damned if i'm not going to use all means at my disposal to do the same.

Perhaps if Dell didn't offshore a vast majority of it's workforce to countries where employees wages are low and union strength is diminished, the procedures and quality of staff in place would more easily identify such errors instead of aimlessly accepting orders which are incorrectly priced... I've had first hand experience of managing inept offshore staff purely because it was the cheaper option (on paper) causing company direction to change purely down to a dollar sign, only for them to u-turn years later when they realised the drastic reduction in quality of services delivered. Lesson learnt by Dell? Probably not. Eventually? Maybe.

I'll start feeling sorry for Dell when they start feeling sorry for the near 2000 staff they made unemployed in the U.K when they decided to move manufacturing to Poland due to the incentives offered, deal?

Did i believe it was a misprice? perhaps. Was my main suspicion that they were trying to shift stock of a particular model? Mainly yes. There has been a great deal of change of the models made available in the U.K, at one point they completely removed the Dell XPS 15 from sale. After which, only the i5 versions were present for purchase. It's not beyond realm of possibility for this to be the case.

Now as for your 'Cheapskate' comment, of course you're more than entitled to your own opinion. My wife might disagree though, she's not exactly a fan of what she considered 'Excessive' spending on technology, home audio and visual equipment i seem to litter the house with.