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  1. #51
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbot View Post
    @Risco, if early Dell customers are to be BETA TESTERS they should be advised of this by Dell.

    Dell do not advise customers they are BETA TESTERS and instead of thoroughly testing their machines, do business according to what they can get away with. Teething issues should be resolved before an item ships. Dell's recent behaviour isn't in accord with their slogan "the power to do more" but is often instead in practice "DELL: THE DISEMPOWEREMENT - TO DO LESS"

    Shipping a machine with major issues such as latency, fan noise, inappropriate levels of heat, and throttling is TOTALLY UNCOOL. It demonstrates a total lack of regard or respect for the value of customer time or experience, and this approach leaves an unfair burden on customer to take action to resolve problems they should never have faced.

    So, an open question to the Dell reps, WHY are you shipping machines that informed users are classifying as being in BETA without full disclosure of this at the point of sale?

    (I assume they won't answer - which tells it's own story).

    As a second question, where in the INTEGRITY in this approach when this forum comprises some of the more competent and informed tech users and they still struggle?

    What about the 80% of less well informed tech users who with busy lives are dismayed their machines DO NOT FUNCTION AS ADVERTISED then face an unfair burden of resolution?

    How do you sleep easily at night when people in their 60's are constantly frustrated BY MACHINES THAT DO NOT WORK AS ADVERTISED which impinges upon their whole quality of life, causing stress, lost productivity, lost business, morale, inhibited creativity and a host of psychological stresses?

    Why do you have a ridiculous, bureaucratic support process that attempts to FOB OFF customers with ridiculous statements and claims? (The only reason I can say this is I've been using computers for 28 years, and using PCs since 1992, so as a power user, I know when I'm being FOBBED OFF which I was extensively regarding my L702x).

    My advice to anyone considering Dell:
    - The strong repeated sentiment of this forum is that consumer laptops (and their support) can often be a time wasting nightmare. If you buy a machine that is effective in BETA TESTING, you are facing a risk of not being able to get on with the task at hand, facing extreme stress and frustration, wasting loads of time on the phone, having to arrange your schedule multiple times for support call outs that may not work, and dealing with many maddening issues. All of this costs you your emotional capital / morale and your time.

    - Some people claim that Dell's business machines seem to be better supported, and for this reason the avoid consumer machines like the plague. Consumer machines include the XPS L521x.

    - It seems to me to be very unfair that Dell, IMO, profile the psychology of average computer users and orient their business practices according to what they can get away with. They understand that if users have limited tech competency and lead busy lives, most do not have the wherewithal to spend tens or even hundreds of hours following up with Dell to get a computer to work properly. Even if you are an advanced expert user, you can waste a lot of time dealing with things DELL SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN RIGHT BEFORE SHIPPING.

    So - as a reader, ask yourself why am I so vocal about these issues? and what kind of frustration would form such a perspective I express to help you in your decision? This might give you an inclination about how I feel following my ownership of Dell XPS L702x over the last year.
    i think you fail to understand that in engineering sometimes the only way to see if they are issues is to release on a mass scale. You get much more data this way than you would if it was only released to a select few beta testers. Besides you make it sound like Dell are the only company that does this. Rarely are laptops released where there are zero issues. I could quite happily list launch bugs and current unfixed bugs with practically every other competitor. The difference between Dell and other manufacturers is that the listen and have a very large presence on these forums. I can assure you none of the other manufacturers would have a bios fix as quickly as Dell have done for the throttling.
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Being that the top of the line LX521 costs much more than my Sager NP9170 with an AMD 7970, yes, the Dell seems overpriced.
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  3. #53
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Quote Originally Posted by nunomoreira10 View Post
    Sure, unfortunately dell followed the same path as apple and overpriced the laptop simply because they can.
    that doesn´t make them any different then apple
    Shame on them for copying one of the biggest companies in the world. How dare they try to sell something made with higher quality materials for a higher price?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turbot View Post
    As a second question, where in the INTEGRITY in this approach when this forum comprises some of the more competent and informed tech users and they still struggle?

    What about the 80% of less well informed tech users who with busy lives are dismayed their machines DO NOT FUNCTION AS ADVERTISED then face an unfair burden of resolution?
    Those tech savy people are likely the only ones noticing the issue. I consider myself an avid computer user but I don't have much experience with things like coretemp and 3D mark (and such) and I can honestly say my new XPS 15 works great. Don't get me wrong, I'm very thankful that tech savy people are around to tell Dell about the issues but don't say that the 80% of other people are lost in all their problems. Don't forget "Ignorance is bliss".

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Quote Originally Posted by NobodyAround View Post
    Because Inspirion screen sucks more than current XPS screen. Simple. And Screen on XPS is a major advantage for buying.
    You mean the grainy screen?

    In hundreds of pages I've read here in notebookreview I've seen that the main reason to say it's not overpriced is build quality.
    Now, materials are definitely excellent, and this is the only reason why I'm still without a laptop waiting for the L521x (let's forget the poor glue which causes the cable to touch the fan and make noise.......... ) But materials are only one side of build quality.
    The other side is just the one Dell has failed with: quality control, which is foundamental to find out development mistakes.
    A good quality control would have noticed the throttling problem quite soon, even though this seems to be common to all Ivy Bridge laptops (so let's pass over it, since they seem to be on the right way to solve it with the new BIOS)
    A good quality control would have found out the wifi issue in less than 5 minutes
    A good quality control would have noticed that eye-punching pixel grid on the display! Especially since XPS 15z had teh same issue
    And these are major problems, which compromise the utility of the laptop! Such lacks of attention can't be accepted on a laptop which costs so much and which aims to steal customers to Apple. This is the reasons of rants and this is the reason why Dell should lower the price at least until they solve every issue I mentioned above.
    Last edited by alfling; 17th July 2012 at 10:34 AM.
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  5. #55
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Risco View Post
    i think you fail to understand that in engineering sometimes the only way to see if they are issues is to release on a mass scale. You get much more data this way than you would if it was only released to a select few beta testers. Besides you make it sound like Dell are the only company that does this. Rarely are laptops released where there are zero issues. I could quite happily list launch bugs and current unfixed bugs with practically every other competitor. The difference between Dell and other manufacturers is that the listen and have a very large presence on these forums. I can assure you none of the other manufacturers would have a bios fix as quickly as Dell have done for the throttling.
    There are engineering processes that can be used to elimiate these faults, or drastically reduce the likelyhood of them occuring. They are used throughout the motor industry where every once in a while recalls occur, but are very rare. If computer faults led to the same issue as car faults, they would have to engineer them better. Instead, it's business as they can get away with. The methodologies are used in the auto industry all the time. Keep in mind that Dells recent revenue was reported as being 65 billion. They can afford to do things right.

    For example, if Dell hired the 100 most competent people on this forum as BETA testers, they would eliminate most of the issues everyone else faced. I would trust the collective wisdom of these users *way over* my trust level of the current Dell testing gang. Forces combined, that should de-risk the computer ownership experience for everyone.

    Keep in mind in terms of faults, we are not talking about abstract niggles, where when unusual software does things in unusual ways with non-standard external devices when things go awry. We are talking about simple stuff like OVERHEATING and THROTTLING and even LATENCY and FAN NOISE and functioning USB3 ports.

    My XPS L702x shipped in a way that couldn't play MP3's or Videos without stuttering every 45 - to 90 seconds. It doesn't take a genius to notice this, just someone who is paying attention.

    As best as I can ascertain, there is a much lower occurence of faults with Mac's than with recent Dell computers. Dell's engineering processes also purposefully knowingly apply different classes of quality control on consumer machines vs precision machines, even though many people complain of Latency / Stuttering on the M4600 here too.

    My experience is not so much that Dell listens, but has a process where you can reach someone and then they put you through a very time consuming series of steps under the banner of customer support. This isn't of the same calibre it used to be, often with semi-competent tech staff and no-one who takes charge of resolving your issues. They hide behind anonymity and freak out if you ask them upfront for their employee ID and put you through to their manager. There is a culture of very mixed integrity in Dell's support process. Finally, by using these forums and going back anf forth, Dell offered me some type of resolution *BUT* it took an inordinate amount of time / frustration to get to that point, and based upon all the things everyone has said here, I just don't trust the L702x is engineered in a way that respects customer time.

    If I can call this based upon incidental experiences, Dell with their 65 billion revenue can hire the best consulting firms in the World to make my experience better. So why then am I so frustrated with them?

    It's a total fallacy that computer companies, instead of making high technology works of art, sloppily sell what they can get away with. This is one of the factors that is turning me towards Apple (which is like changing religion).

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Quote Originally Posted by alfling View Post
    You mean the grainy screen?

    In hundreds of pages I've read here in notebookreview I've seen that the main reason to say it's not overpriced is build quality.
    Now, materials are definitely excellent, and this is the only reason why I'm still without a laptop waiting for the L521x (let's forget the poor glue which causes the cable to touch the fan and make noise.......... ) But materials are only one side of build quality.
    The other side is just the one Dell has failed with: quality control, which is foundamental to find out development mistakes.
    A good quality control would have noticed the throttling problem quite soon, even though this seems to be common to all Ivy Bridge laptops (so let's pass over it, since they seem to be on the right way to solve it with the new BIOS)
    A good quality control would have found out the wifi issue in less than 5 minutes
    A good quality control would have noticed that eye-punching pixel grid on the display! Especially since XPS 15z had teh same issue
    And these are major problems, which compromise the utility of the laptop! Such lacks of attention can't be accepted on a laptop which costs so much and which aims to steal customers to Apple. This is the reasons of rants and this is the reason why Dell should lower the price at least until they solve every issue I mentioned above.
    I second that although all official or non-official answers are: 1) materials are excellent 2) great support.
    Although for great support you pay that by extending your warranty!

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Quote Originally Posted by krayziehustler View Post
    Some say the MacBook Pro is overpriced....until they hold it in their hands and feel the quality of the build and materials used.
    I hate to tell you this, but there is more that goes into a laptop than metal and glass. It can be pretty, made of premium materials, and still overpriced.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Quote Originally Posted by NobodyAround View Post
    I second that although all official or non-official answers are: 1) materials are excellent 2) great support.
    Although for great support you pay that by extending your warranty!
    It's certainly true, but maybe you didn't read carefully what I wrote: materials are excellent, but quality control failed. The good support (that you pay, btw) can "contain damages", but with such a price you really shouldn't spend several hours (and lose half day of work to wait technician, don't forget) to sort out what they messed up
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  9. #59
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker_moc View Post
    A plastic bottom isn't necessarily a bad thing either, it won't be as hot sitting on your lap. I don't see any huge difference in build quality.
    Let us note that the entire XPS line has basically plastic or carbon fiber bottoms. Anyone knocking a laptop for having a plastic bottom is an idiot, as there is no real advantage to having an aluminum bottom--only disadvantages.

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Is The New Dell XPS L521X Overpriced?

    Quote Originally Posted by seeker_moc View Post
    None of these options are hands-down better, every laptop has it's pros/cons, but there are absolutely other alternatives

    HP Envy 15 (slightly worse specs, but slightly better price, similar build/looks): i7-2670qm (will probably update to ivybridge soon), 8GB RAM, AMD 7690M (between the XPS 15's Nvidia 630M and 640M options), 1080p "Radiance" LCD, 1yr 'regular' warranty: $1300
    Pretty sure the Envy 15 already upgraded to Ivy Bridge. HP Envy 3200 series is Ivy, 3000 series is Sandy.

 

 
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