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[lancorp]

As for your pricing theories, I will let you live in your own whacky little world.....one where you clearly think that:

When the math is very plain on the US website that one 680m is $550 and two is twice that at $1100

Just to put my two cents worth in, I kind of have to agree with TommydCat...a base M18xR2 for $1999 includes a GPU card, and that GPU card has a cost/value. They aren't free to Dell (and, even if they are, they do have a net worth).

So, base card A is worth, say, $100. It's cost/value is built into the $1999 system price.

To upgrade to a better card B, costs, $550. Simple math says that B card is worth $650 ($100 + $550) (not counting any sort of price gouging or funky pricing). If B card is then worth $650, then a 2nd B-card is worth $650. Since a 2nd card does not come with the system, the price to add a B-card should be $650, not $550, assuming Dell is charging an "upgrade" price on the original A-card upgrade. If, on the other hand, Dell is keeping (as profit) the value of the A-card, and charging list for the B-card (1st and 2nd) then your theory makes sense.

Since no one knows how much Dell pays for these things and their pricing structure, then no on can say for sure, but on the surface, to upgrade one for $550 and add a 2nd for $550 doesn't make sense.

Also, look at the 675M option. Upgrade price from 660M to 675M is $250. To add another 675M , according to your logic, should be $250, but it's $550 over the price of a single. First and 2nd card, in this case, are not the same price, as the first upgrade takes into account a value of the base card.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you're thinking?

[Ahmedadel]

Guys, I am still stuck on making the decision between the 7970m and the 680m. I mean both are similar in performance but I want to know that if I plug the 7970m into an external 3d SCREEN, will the 3d work because it is the new generation of AMD ??!!!! And tell me which purchase you think I should do

[steviejones133]

Guys, I am still stuck on making the decision between the 7970m and the 680m. I mean both are similar in performance but I want to know that if I plug the 7970m into an external 3d SCREEN, will the 3d work because it is the new generation of AMD ??!!!! And tell me which purchase you think I should do

Apologies for missing you question in the fray. To answer your questions, the 7970m seems to support 3d to an external display (see here). As for the choice between the two, there wont be any huge jump in performance going from AMD to Nvidia, certainly not one that would justify the initial pricing anyway. Things appear to be looking up on the AMD driver front as several members are reporting good things overf here.

I guess the choice boils down to wether you have deep pockets and a taste for Nvidia. It's also yet to be seen how well AMD's new plans to provide better driver support will be in the future....they plan on scrapping monthly updates and focus on quality not regularity. Nvidia on the other hand, seems to offer better product support, at least as of now anyway. The other things which may sway your decision would the abilities/benefits of PhysX and CUDA.

I can't say go with one or the other - if it were me, I would go for Nvidia but the pricing obviously is ridiculously high and is something only you yourself could decide wether its worth it or not.

Also, this may be of interest to you: Alienware 23" 3D monitor with 7970m M17x

[smallgene]

I think you need a gtx 675m or gtx680m for 3D capability.

I haven't heard of AMD graphics that are able to do that. There might some third party software/drivers for the 7970m.

[TommydCat]

The 7970m will certainly support 3d movies on any 3d-capable external HDMI display with PowerDVD, and games should work in 3d mode on compatible displays (list of which can be found here). I personally like the Samsung displays, but your mileage may vary

I don't know if smallgene is alluding to the fact that only the M17x in the AW line has the 3d built-in display option and then only bundled with the nvidia cards. This is unfortunate, as I really love the 120Hz refresh rate in 2d mode and would pay for that without the 3d at all. An 18 inch 120hz display would rock!

[Ahmedadel]

thanks guys and Stevie no need to apolagize lol u, DR and Katalin are prolly the most helpfull people for guys who own/want to own an alienware

[steviejones133]

Guys, just want to go back to the pricing briefly. I agree, we shouldnt argue - let's just call it an enthusiastic discussion, eh?

a base M18xR2 for $1999 includes a GPU card, and that GPU card has a cost/value. They aren't free to Dell (and, even if they are, they do have a net worth).

As per the above, I agree.

So, base card A is worth, say, $100. It's cost/value is built into the $1999 system price.

As you say yourself above, the cost value of card "A" has already been built in to the system starting price, thus its intrinsic value to Dell has already been covered by the $1999 base price for anyone NOT wanting to upgrade. If you DO upgrade, I very much doubt that Dell take the cost of a single 660m off your 1st gpu upgrade, which explains why one 680m is exactly half the cost of two 680m's in the States. If they did factor in the removal of the 660m cost somehow, I am at a loss to see how or why in the US, the cost for SLI is exactly double, as the first gpu would become slightly cheaper because of the removal of the 660m overhead costs....and it isnt.

One 680M is a $550 upgrade from one 660M. If I get the 680M, do I keep the 660M? No? then it's a rip-off if I'm paying full-price for the 680M over the price that would have gotten me a 660M. Pretty simple math, and this is the single point that keeps bringing me back

The base GPU has a cost. You admit it, then try to write it off? This is our fundamental disagreement. All parts have a manufacturing cost (material, labor, overhead), cost of goods sold (COGS), a wholesale price (price to customer when it's an included part), and a retail price (the part sold alone). To say the base GPU doesn't have a cost is ludicrous, even if you believe Dell either absorbs it in the whole price or gouges you. Order a spare GTX 660M from Dell and amaze yourself that they'll charge you.

You never had a 660m in the first place mate....ever....

I'm not saying that the 660m doesnt have a cost, it obviously does.

I will try to explain my logic - it's my belief that the mistake you guys are making (as above) is assuming that Dell have to cover the cost of the base 660m that NEVER gets installed or even ORDERED in the first place. Why would they order a 660m for your system only to remove it and upgrade them and have the customer stand the cost of doing so? - Dell dont have to stand the cost of a 660m because, quite simply, it never even existed for you if you chose to upgrade the gpu.

If you think that they all roll off the production line with a single 660m installed already that Dell have to remove and either throw away or cover the cost of, then you're crazy - these machines are built to order - you spec up a machine, place your order and if you place it with a gpu upgrade, your machine doesnt get 660m orederd for it and it never comes close to having a 660m put in it, so why you feel the need to warrant its cost is beyond me

I don't know if you have ever heard of the production strategy called "JIT" (just-in-time) but I imagine Dell use it quite alot. Basically, it's where stock is ordered in only "as and when" required, as late as possible to keep costs down as opposed to stockpiling loads of expensive gpu's (and other components) that they may or may not sell. Dell will still get "economies of scale" discounts from Nvidia/AMD because they both know that Dell will be a massive customer placing plenty of repeat orders for these gpu's. They probably dont hold a massive stock of 660m as most people look at upgrading and Dell know this - chances are, when systems are ordered with stock gpu, Dell would order some in....that would be my business logic anyway. No point in having them sat around if they are not going to prove popular and these are gaming rigs, most guys want a stronger gpu. It's also another reason why the cost of a 660m should not be taken into serious account as they aren't (or I imagine them not to be) a tangible stock asset in the first place, on the most part, due to forecasted lack of demand.

Think of the pricing for upgrades a bit like ordering a take-away. I know the 660m has a cost/value, but from what you are saying, it's like the restaurant (Dell) cooks the whole menu and then they charge me more simply becasue I dont want to order it all. I don't expect to pay for chinese fried rice (660m) when I order chicken curry (680m) just because chinese fried rice (660m) might be on the menu or has an associated cost to supply me with it HAD I wanted the rice in the first place!! LOL

What you are intimating is that we should cover the cost of a part that Dell never ordered or installed in your customised machine order....if you are happy to pay for it in the cost of an "upgrade" then more fool you.

If Dell actually remove the cost of the 660m from the cost of an upgrade, that's all well and good. I dont see how this works though as for the US, this should make the first gpu cheaper than the second but it is not - it's the same price. For example, say a 680m costs $650 minus the $100 cost of card "A" (660m) which you NEVER had, that would be right for a single gpu upgrade as the cost is $550. The second gpu module STILL costs $650, and there is no other base gpu to remove, so the cost of adding a second gpu is actually increased in reality. $550 for the first and $650 for the second does not make $1100....see my point?

To upgrade to a better card B, costs, $550. Simple math says that B card is worth $650 ($100 + $550)

On the same principal as above, the worth of card "B" has nothing to do with the worth of card "A" as you never had card "A" to begin with......Dell didnt book your order with a 660m, then change it to whatever....the 660m in your order never existed, only on paper/website as an example of how much extra you pay for a gpu upgrade.

If, on the other hand, Dell is keeping (as profit) the value of the A-card, and charging list for the B-card (1st and 2nd) then your theory makes sense.

Again, card "A" has nothing to do with a gpu upgrade as it was never there in the first place when an upgraded order gets placed - however, it's highly likely that Dell never bothered to remove that $100 that was incorporated into the $1999 base price for a 660m that you never had or ever will receive. You are correct in seing where I am coming from though!

I think we can all agree that dell are not "non-profit" and that they are in business to make money. I dont know how much money they make on a single 680m or 680m SLI but I do know that the only difference between supply of a single or SLI solution is a different heatsink on the secondary card and the addition of a SLI ribbon. The MXM cards themselves are the same "cost to Dell" for primary/secondary so it should not cost more to go SLI for that reason.

Nvidia don't supply the heatsinks (beacuse each OEM will have to have them made for their own machines) so that cost is down to Dell also. That may be the reason why 675m SLI is $50 more than a single 675m....perhaps, when we get up to the price range of over $1000, Dell simply elect not to charge the small amount over for the different heatsink & SLI ribbon, because lets face it, they have already had the $100 out your pocket for the 660m you never had LOL

Proportionally, I imagine Dell pay the same unit price for all MXM gpu modules regardless of which country they will be destined for. They don't buy them from anywhere else, they are all purchased from Nvidia or AMD in the States with worldwide distribution in mind - you dont get a "UK" gpu or a "Australian" gpu which suddenly becomes more expensive for Dell to buy!!. With that in mind, it would be safe to say that the RETAIL cost of the module should be the purchase cost (plus any additional charges for sending to the country of destination) plus Dell's mark-up.

The UK cost is fair for one 680m as it is proportionally "in line" with the additional charges we expect in the UK and is also proportional to the cost of a single 680m in the States of $550usd PLUS 20% UK customs, equalling £660usd, which is the equivalent of the UK website price of £430.....Where it gets out of whack is that the cost to provide a 2nd gpu - It's no more expensive in terms of cost of parts for Dell to make a UK M18x with 680m SLI vs. the US equivalent. Costings don't suddenly multiply disproportionally for SLI just because Dell are sending a machine to the UK. The only cost increase I would have expected would have been the 20% customs. I would have expected that our SLI pricing (had it been "in line") should have been around the $1100usd + 20% = around £860 but it is obviously not. Its some £160/$300 more......and there is no reason for it other than profiteering in my eyes.

If you look at the US 4.1ghz XM upgrade vs the UK equivalent, that IS priced roughly in line ($1150 usd +20% = $1380usd = £880gbp) working out actually a tiny bit cheaper than the US version, so I fail to see why it should be any different with gpu's.....

Wow, didn't realise this post got so long!! - I hope you guys see where I am coming from here, sorry for the chapter and verse, at the end of the day, we all have our own opinions so wether it's right or wrong - this is mine.

thanks guys and Stevie no need to apolagize lol u, DR and Katalin are prolly the most helpfull people for guys who own/want to own an alienware

Thanks for your kind words - I'm blushing now LOL

[TommydCat]

I hear what you're saying, stevie.. and I'll just leave the note that when I go through the drive-through at Burger King and get the combo meal, they'll just charge the difference for substituting onion rings for fries/chips - not the whole retail price for onion rings. (They likely only have fries/chips in the hopper since onion rings aren't as popular, so I'll have to wait a few more minutes but no real cost to the restaurant).

However, if they introduce a brand new product (poutine, for example... heh), they'll likely not include it as an option into the combo, or charge a premium over the sub price - perhaps what Dell is doing with the brand-new GPU that every kid on the block has to have.

But this doesn't mean Dell has to follow this model at all, so whatever divination we perform to figure out their pricing strategy (if there is one, heh) is likely wrong in any case. (But I digest... Burger King can make me gassy )

Dell thinks - new kit, let's gouge the early adopters and ease off the price as the competition catches up (which in retrospect I think is a bigger factor than inventory). Or... some young executive is typing random numbers into a spreadsheet...

I'll let go now

[steviejones133]

I hear what you're saying, stevie.. and I'll just leave the note that when I go through the drive-through at Burger King and get the combo meal, they'll just charge the difference for substituting onion rings for fries/chips - not the whole retail price for onion rings. (They likely only have fries/chips in the hopper since onion rings aren't as popular, so I'll have to wait a few more minutes but no real cost to the restaurant).

However, if they introduce a brand new product (poutine, for example... heh), they'll likely not include it as an option into the combo, or charge a premium over the sub price - perhaps what Dell is doing with the brand-new GPU that every kid on the block has to have.

But this doesn't mean Dell has to follow this model at all, so whatever divination we perform to figure out their pricing strategy (if there is one, heh) is likely wrong in any case. (But I digest... Burger King can make me gassy )

Dell thinks - new kit, let's gouge the early adopters and ease off the price as the competition catches up (which in retrospect I think is a bigger factor than inventory). Or... some young executive is typing random numbers into a spreadsheet...

I'll let go now

Hahaha. I totally agree - but don't get me started on the whole "supersizing" cost/profit ratio LOL - very little cost to fry up a few more fries and charge alot more for them.....

I do still feel that the UK gets charged over the odds in direct comparison for the priveledge of SLI. It's always been the case that we get hammered by everyone who thinks they can just "take the mickey".....as there is no real formula we can go off, it's all hypothetical anyway....I just hate the thought of getting bent over backwards...

+rep for a great bit of banter!

[ErikO]

Anybody have any other info on this?

3940XM.... kinda-like how the 2960XM beat the 2920XM, if there's a better chip / option, I "need" it!

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